Fandom moves in mysterious ways ... :ph43r:

For no reason I can determine, We'll get a flood of 20 or more 'guests' (unregistered visitors) at my RPG site. Most of them don't stay terribly long but they are clearly looking at things (they are in forums or threads), rather than bots trying to scam emails or whatever.

I have no idea how they find the game, or who they are -neither of which is a problem but I always wanna know how/why/who?!?!

It's like the currents of fandom wash them up on my shore, periodically.

Not sure how recent it is but Foxy did mention it (link it?) on her LJ so that may account for some things there, possibly.

Of course I'm obnoxious enough to actually be logged in there.

I laughed so hard when you mentioned the ghost slug thing. Don't think you followed ask_world enough to have seen it in one of my Hart posts, but that was ... kind of really funny to read about that-

It's a small multi-verse ;)

Can you put any other stat/visitor trackers on the boards? I get obsessive about watching where the fandom currents wash up :) Feedback can be such an uncertain thing, I got into the habit of reading hit counts as feedback of their own, in a way. If people are revisiting, that must mean they like it, even if they're not saying anything!

Yeah, I did link. PRESSURE. Why did I do that? I don't know if that's why, but a a few people in different RPs are on my f-list so they might be interested in general.

Gotta go write stuff!


Hope, you can use Google Analytics for a lot of things.

Yup, you can and I certainly do :D It's brilliant for measuring all those bits of feedback that occur outside of comments - how many people are reading, where recs are happening, all that. I'm glad that Dreamwidth has an Analytics plugin thing going on.

Boy -

I hope the total dead-ness of this forum is due to the holidays/writing madness instead of a general disinterest in Torchwood discussion/meta.

That would suck.

Yeah, it really would suck.

Speaking for myself, I've been super busy with classes for the past month. I have my last final on Thursday, and I haven't been able to justify too much that doesn't involve studying.

Honestly, right now I'm sort of reluctant to get into any sort discussion about Torchwood because inevitably, everything turns into a COE debate. Over it. So fucking over it. It's been months and COE is still this huge sensitive spot for everyone, whether they liked it not. Everyone just gets their hackles up over it. It's a lot easier to just stay out of the conversation altogether.

So, yeah, I guess there is a disinterest from me. I mean, I'm still all into writing fanfic, but I guess it'd be easier without all those pesky readers. Oh wait, that defeats the purpose because I like readers. Umm... hm.

;)

I have the same reasonings as lioness, but from a different angle. I enjoyed CoE, but I'm not enjoying fandom right now; I dislike the level of vitriol, negativity and bad behaviour that seems has become normal discourse, and I find it really hard to navigate conversations about anything TW - post CoE, pre CoE, the new series - because it seems to inevitably become about people's personal hurt feelings rather than about the context, content or merits (or otherwise) of the show itself. I find myself torn between understanding some people are genuinely upset and not wanting to say anything in case they take it personally, even though I never mean it personally, and between wanting to redress the balance a bit, because I do feel a lot of what's being put out there about the creators and the content is unfair and inaccurate, and plenty of fan behaviour, while coming from a legitimate place of grief, has none the less been appalling. Opinion seems so polarised, you end up talking only to the people you know already agree with you, and while that's very lovely for the ego, there's only so far you can run with that.

That's not necessarily so applicable here, this is one of the saner places in fandom, but that would be why I've generally found my levels of TW-related energy dipping. Too much baggage.

That's actually the exact same angle I'm coming at it from. My feelings on COE are absolutely not withstanding in my being sick of talking about it. I feel talked-out about it, and that's where I'm over it. If there was another subject, maybe if everything didn't come down to "how it was in COE" then I'd feel more welcome to have a conversation.

And I feel that way about people who liked it, too. I'm equal opportunity sick of everyone, lol. Almost everyone who liked it is super defensive about it. They can't start a Torchwood opinion without "Well, I liked COE" or act like how people react to them comes down to the fact that they publicly liked COE.

The fandom split when COE happened, and ever since then, I can't bring myself to care as much about it as I used to. I'm embarrassed by the Ianto people and pretty much everyone else annoys me to no end when anything COE-related comes up. If we talk about something else, if it's another topic in fandom or not fandom related at all, it's cool, but I'm so sick of this one subject. I kept hoping that as time wore on it would fade some, but it hasn't. And I'm too annoyed by the whole fandom to care.

To be honest, I start out by saying "Well I liked CoE" partly because I get fed up of people assuming no one liked CoE and conversations perpetually seeming to begin from that premise, and partly just to clue people in in advance that if you leave me a lengthy response about how much you hated it and RTD should die in a fire, I'm probably not going to agree with you. It just seems to make life a bit easier, because I'm going to end up saying "Actually I liked CoE" at some point in the conversation, I might as well get it out to begin with.

Now, see, I feel like I have to be defensive about not liking it. I get this feeling from fandom these days that all the cool people like it and if you don't like it, then you're crazy or hysterical, or you just want to watch guys kiss. Like it's not possible to just...not like it.

And seeing a bunch of "Well I liked COE" just gets me down since I really would like to like it. I loved it at first, and yeah, I am a little disappointed that my enthusiasm has gone down like part of Jack's body when his sexytiems are disturbed by the rift alarm.

So in short, yeah, COE discussion is generally a bummer. I don't mind talking about COE itself, but all the justifications about liking it or not liking it get old.

It's frustrating that CoE has divided the fandom the way it has, combined with the fact that it's the 'new canon' and fandoms are usually energeized by new canon and the questions they bring up ...

Why did Ianto lie about his dad for so long? Did Jack ever know? Meta about Alice or her mother, what would/will be the govt. response to the surviving T'wood member (Gwen) after the whole 456 debacle and so on ...

These are all interesting questions and would normally be a huge sorce of exploration but the sensativity of fandom to anything about series three makes it difficult to discuss all the juicy bits.

We've already sort of mined series 1 and 2 and we were eager for new canon but it ended up being something difficult to talk about. I know that there were some CoE positive communities that were set up but as far as I can tell, they haven't been very active.

I mean, I don't like CoE but I still want to play with the stories and stuff in it (and not just as a fix-it), in terms of backstory and stuff.

ETA: do you think there's a way to get some discussion going that begins with the assumption that no one needs to justify or explain (in that discussion) their like or dislike of CoE - that it's a discussion of the ... meaty bits of the series (as well as its relationship to 1 and 2), such as new NPCs, the potential prominence of Torchwood, how the existence of Jack's family could change interpretations of his actions in previous series etc?

I'm with missdeanna, in that I always feel the need to justify not liking it, mainly because of the batshit fangirls who're just pissed that Ianto died.

I'm just being quiet because I have nothing to say, although I do have an essay on Jack as a leader which I just got the mark back on... *Goes to unlock blog post*

I like discussing the actual content of COE, as long as there isn't any heavy baggage attached to it. It seems like a lot of discussions end up being about the writers' motivations and what was necessary, from a storytelling point of view. I think there's limited usefulness, there, because the writing of Torchwood can be inconsistent, in general.

I sorta feel like we're all defensive then -- because I feel like I need to justify liking it (and also why I'm uncomfortable, not with people disliking it, but some of the very aggressive stuff towards some of the creators).

I'm pretty fascinated by the degree to which people can't hear each other on CoE (i.e., I say "please don't say x around me" and then someone says "well, I can say x to you because ..." and it's like, "well, you can... but now both of us are even more unhappy").

I wish there were more conversation that could be had about things in CoE (Ianto as a lying liar who lies and who knew what when; the degree to which everyone's "you can't be in Torchwood and have a relationship" is an outgrowth of Jack's bitterness with Lucia), that didn't get into the overall fandom split or everyone's defensiveness and everything else.

Sometimes I feel like I'm going a little crazy because a) I really liked it and B) I'm still really sad about it and c) I feel like people feel let down by that.

Yeah, and I trying to get past all that and hoping the fandom can as well. In some ways, the controversy over CoE ends up being like there's been no new canon since S2 because discussing CoE is so fraught.

I'm afraid that divide will continue as S4 (if it comes, and it seems likely) arrives, with some people not willing to follow the new canon and others okay with it.

I think, personally, that the divide can be bridged but it takes work. I mean, I used to be in due South and there was a terrible breach over the 'new' Ray but the fandom (at least 10 years later) managed to slowly get over it.

I wasn't in Due South (I came into fandom a little later) but I heard so much about the Ray Wars that was so bitter just after I came into fandom (I was seeing episodes at the time with RayV and liking him and I hadn't had the chance to decide if I liked RayK or not yet). I mostly read RayV fic even now when I dip into the fandom because I didn't see much of RayK's eps. But that doesn't mean I don't like RayK (or Callum for that matter)

Anyway, onto the actual topic...

Maybe it still really is too soon? I mean it's only now, as you say, ten years later, that Due South is calming. And yes, I know it must've taken a lot of work, and TW fandom needs to put in that work. But maybe the fandom isn't at the point where it's ready to do that work, if that makes sense? I mean right now it feels to me like it's fatigue - so over it, as lionessblack says above, and maybe in a few months there'll be more dialogue, more open-mindedness on both sides of the divide, once some more time has passed.

I say this not having actually watched COE (though I will have my own copy tomorrow I won't exactly be pulling it out to *watch* over the holidays and I'm not even a huge Ianto fan - but I really don't want to watch the rest of it either at this time).

Also I think that if we get new canon soon (as in the next few months) it might help somewhat, too. I know there's going to be people who disavow it, but I really think something more neutral and less polarising in the way of canon could do more to revitalise the fandom than Ianto's resurrection.

I also think, I mean, since I'm doing so much work on this right now -- that the holiday season is probably the wrong time to want this to calm down. Grief's like a flaring wound in December.

Especially right before End of Time, which I have a feeling will open up a whole new can of worms as well as opening the current one even further. I'd put money on the fact that people are going to be disappointed with how they deal with Jack and with CoE tomorrow.
DNW

As far as I'm concerned, WoM actually addressed it as much as DW is going to, at least thematically. As long as I can fix whatever they do tomorrow with fanfiction, I'm good. I'm trying to focus on the whole Master in bondage porn factor instead.

Honestly I will have enormous respect for the superhuman grit and discipline of anybody who can manage to take anything away from EoT beyond JOHN SIMM IN BONDAGE. Honest to God, I've never even found the man attractive before, but I'm having to mop my chin after some of these promo shots.

OH MY GOD! I SLIP INTO A WINTER-INDUCED STUPOR FOR A COUPLE OF MONTHS AND YOU GUYS GET ALL CHATTY! JEEZ.

I mean, well I really liked you guys...

lol, sorry :P

CAN SOMEONE PLEASE TALK ABOUT THE GEEKY TECHNICAL ASPECTS OF CoE? I WANNA BE A DP, OK?!!! (only sometimes, mostly i want to be an editor)

Should I be worried that new canon yet again created minimal response? The comments I've heard haven't been that encouraging, and yet again I can't record it tonight because it clashes with Casualty *dark look at parents*

i think a lot of ppl are waiting for part 2

Or masturbating furiously over John Simm.

OH WHAT. You were.

The entire fandom is going to grind to a screeching halt until everyone gets their wank over with.

In every way, and then some.

*Sighs* Is New Year's Day Friday or Saturday? I can never remember