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[Brigitte]

Okay, so I've been thinking about the Wheel, and how, out of the seven Ages, Jordan has said that one of them is ours; this is widely believed to be the Age before the Age of Legends (ie. the First Age )

Anyway, from what we learn about the Age of Legends, it is pretty much a perfect Age, with no hatred or warfare, and it is heavily hinted (if not outright stated) that this is because the Dark One no longer touches the world. We know that the DO's bore was not unsealed until late in that Age; sealed imperfectly by Lews Therin and his Hundred Companion, and all prophecies indicate that it will be perfectly sealed by Rand in the Third Age (which makes sense, given that by the time the Age of Legends rolls around again, the DO will once again be perfectly sealed.)

My first question, then, is why this Age is so warlike, if the DO has been sealed perfectly for five full ages? Surely it would not take that long to have his effect dissipate, when it clearly is felt so strongly even now, only to have it disappear completely by the end of the Age of Legends. (Also, this is just my opinion, but it seems like bad storytelling to have a 'dark' presence felt in only two of the seven Ages of the Wheel.)

My second question concerns language, culture, and geography. We have hundreds of nations and languages in this Age, and yet by the Age of Legends only one (Old Tongue) will be spoken. How can this have happened in such short a time (especially since Old Tongue is so little like English, which is increasinly spoken across the world, and so much more like, say, Latin - which has been dead for thousands of years - or another European language?) As for geography, one can only assume that there was (yet another) Breaking at the end of this Age, which resulted in a huge continent shift and reappraisal of borders. That still only goes partway to explaining, however, how each culture has been dispersed so far; for example, Shienarans dress in Chinese fashion but are tall, Saldaeans possess the traditional Asian slanted eyes, and Domani eat with chopsticks. It cannot be because of globalisation of culture, because each of these new cultures is highly localised. And while I'm on the subject, why is Australia suddenly the Land of Madmen? (Oh wait ... never mind ...)

My third question is, how long exactly does 'our' Age last? By virtue of logic, the Third Age is going to last for just over three thousand years. We know that the Age of Legends lasted a long time - presumably much longer than that - though we still do not know how long. In our current Age, however, we can trace the inhabitance of Aborigines in Australia back 40,000 years, and that's a relatively short time compare to other cultures. Considering it's widely accepted that each time an Age changes, most practical vestiges of the previous Age are lost, it is highly unlikely we would know so much about what happened so long ago if this period began in the previous Age, leaving us no conclusion but that this evidence is included in our Age. Likewise, we have fossils dating back billions of years. Obviously these are not from the Second Age, and likely not from the Third; so in what Age, exactly, did dinosaurs live? Even if they lived in the Fourth Age, that would mean that Age would have been around a billion years old - hundreds of millions at least - and this is accepting that this evidence would have survived four more Breakings. I mean, I can accept variation - even wild variation - in the lengths of each Age, but one 3,000 year-old Age and one 3 billion year-old Age?

Ayway, I think they were all my questions ... *counts to three on her fingers* Yep, that was it. So, what do you think?

[Halmek Delmoor]

Well, first, we don't know that our age is the First Age. It could just as easily be the Fifth, or whatever.

And it is not necessarily true that the Dark One is only present in 2 of the 7 ages; he could easily be in others, also. After all, there has to be some significant event to mark the end of an Age, and the dark one is a likely catalyst, even if only indirectly.

As for your second question, I think that it would come from refugee groups being thrown together in various Breakings or catastrophic events and bringing certain aspects of various cultures. (Australia hasn't changed too much, though... )

As for your third question, i think that the dinosaurs come fro a previous turning of the Wheel. we can assume that humanity is not going to go extinct, then re-evolve with every turning of the Wheel. You will notice a lack of dinosaur fossils in the books (except maybe in Tanicho, but I didn't recognize any of them), so I think that the bones did indeed get buried in a Breaking, and that the layer of ground in which most of the bones reside has been coincidently thrown towards the surface enough for us to find them in this Age.

And a billion-year age would encompass everything from the develpoement of life to Now, so I don't think any Age is that long.

and now for a question of my own: the Big White Book shows that shara and seanchan are only separated by a small ocean (the Morenal Ocean? It is labeled the same on both continents), so why don't the Seanchan conquer shara first? It would be a more conveient staging point for an attack on Hawkwing's former lands. Is the world flat? If so, why are the two bodies of water labeled the same? Has neither of them discovered that they can reach each other that way? Or have the seanchan tried and been repelled? I think that unlikely.

[Mestryn]

I'm of the opinion that Hawkwing's expedition to Shara was a success, therefore the Seanchan have no need to invade. That or they have been so busy Consolidating the lands of Seanchan and preparing the Return that they have not had time to look west.

And no, Shara would not be a more convenient staging point. You either have to go across the Aiel Waste, the inhabitants of which had already bested Hawkwing, or through the Sea of Storms, which is called that for a reason. Only the Sea Folk can reliably sail those waters.

[Brigitte]

I did not say that I knew ours is the first Age; however, this is what it is most likely assumed to be, so, for arguments' sake, that's what I'm assuming.

And actually, it is necessarily true that the Dark One is not present in the rest of the Ages, if the propechies are true (and so far, let's assume they are.) In the Second Age, there was no Dark One, having been previously perfectly sealed; in the Third Age, he will again be perfectly sealed. Unless the exact same cycle of unsealing and resealing is repeated in other Ages - which, frankly, is worse storytelling than to have the Dark One be present in only two of seven Ages - then my statement stands.

As for a billion-year Age, that's exactly what I'm saying. If there is an Age with dinosaurs, any fossils found should date back only as far as the last time that Age came around, however, this is not the case. I find it highly unlikely that past Breakings would have buried all more recent fossils, but uncovered those of a billion years ago.

Also, it is said that Ages are quickly forgotten; in the Third Age, very little is known about the Age of Legends (only three thousand years before) and absolutely nothing about the First Age, or any before. Now, however, we have histories that date back millions of years; those we have from merely thousands of years ago are crystal clear compared to what they know in the books. So, again, how long has this Age lasted? Surely the empires of the Greeks and Romans, the Egyptians and Mesopotamians were not in the last Age. What about the Iron Age, the Stone Age, the Bronze Age? Are they all separate Ages? We can date each back ttens of thousands of years - that's a pretty damn long Age.

Refugee groups being thrown together may explain the melding of cultures, but not the separation of such; in the books, each culture is distinct, and 'similar' only to those which are goegraphically close. If the cultures of Shienar and Arad Doman were so close once upon a time that now they have 'split' elements of a previous culture, why are these elements not shared? Why do these cultures now have almost nothing in common? As I said, each culture is highly localised, so the notion of a former 'shared' culture simply does not cut it.

Also, your answer does not begin to address the rest of my question. Why the language? Gradually evolving a group language over time I can understand; even, perhaps, given the limited timeframe in which this was supposed to have happened. However, that the language which evolved has more to do with one long dead and spoken by few, than with something like English, the widest-spoken language in the world, or with Esperanto, the so-called global language, is fairly ridiculous.

As for your question, I agree with Mestryn. If you have more of your own questions to ask, however, I suggest you begin a separate thread - that's what this forum is for - rather than hijacking someone else's.

[Mestryn]

I'm of the opinion that any reference to our world comes from Portal Stones rather than a separate Age. This doesn't really solve the idea of the billion year Ages, but it does mean fossils and things wouldn't appear in one or the other.

[Brigitte]

...

That would make more sense, except that RJ has said that our Age *is* one of the Ages of the Wheel.

[Halmek Delmoor]

What I meant about the Dark One, is that it isn't necessarily true that Rand will be the one to seal the Bore perfectly. Perhaps he will only seal it imperfectly again, and it will be sealed perfectly in a later Age. We don't know.

And maybe the history we know is part of the previous turning of the Wheel, if we assume ours is the First. The Greek and Roman empires could be part of the previous Seventh Age, and perhaps the Iron Age, Bronze Age, and Stone Age are part of the one before that. The inhabitants of the Third Age know what they do about the Age of Legends from myths passed along through generations, but more inmportantly from finding remnants of the Age of Legends, such as ter'angreal. Some relics from the age before that are known, too- the Portal Stones. We know what we do about the Stone Age through roman times from ruins and atrifacts found from those times.

As for cultures, let's look at the Aiel culture, and how it developed. The Da'shain Aiel were dedicated to peace and served the Aes Sedai. They were famous for singing and aiding the Ogier and Nym in the fields. Did they also have the extra height and red-gold hair of Aiel today, or is that a genetic trait picked up from living in the Waste? We don't know, but we know the Tinkers don't have them. During the Breaking, some of the Da'shain abandoned their duty to search for the song, becoming the Tinkers. They retained the Way of the Leaf and the love of singing, but they wander and do not serve anyone. The Aiel kept to their mission, but they abandoned the Way of the Leaf, since they were too defenseless. They certainly aren't famous for singing anymore. They are still respectful of Aes Sedai and retain legends of how they used to serve them, but they don't actually serve them. The Jenn Aiel, who kept to the Way of the Leaf and to their mission, are the 'true' remnant of the Da'shain Aiel, keeping the Way and serving the aes sedai, and also caring for the surviving chora trees. But they died out, perhaps because of hardship and losing people to the Aiel. The Tinkers accepted new members and moved around, and so they survived. Now look at the results. We have the Tinkers, who are famous for singing and dancing and the Way of the Leaf. They take in any who ask, rather than having to have Aiel blood. They never stay in one place for long. We have the Aiel, who are tough and unwlecoming. They are a fierce people, and the only remnant of the Way is the practice of gai'shain and the fact that none of them will touch a sword. They are renowned for their prowess in battle. They sing only in battle or mourning. But they call things by name in the Old Tongue, such as cadin'sor. At a glance, the two cultures are nothing alike, but they share small traits of the Age of Legends Aiel. A similar process could have happened to an Oriental culture in the Age of Legends, with some customs (or even genetic traits) being lost by some refugee groups, while others retain them.

The language is difficult to explain. I don't know how a Latin-like language came to be the universal language. But it has had the whole Age of Legends to evolve.

[Eryn]

Maybe the entire population of the world is wiped out at some point and everything is recreated. Whether that's after the seventh Age or somewhere in the middle, it's hard to say.

That would be scary though. What if you were living then? Would you just cease to exist, or would you have a long, painful death? Or a short, not painful death? Would you know what was going on?