A German Website revealed Evan's programs. His SP will be firebird and LP will be Samson and Delilah. Frank Carroll said he's in great shape.

The source also said according to ISU's policy, Evan will be punished for withdrawing from GP not due to injury or illness, he must pay fine to ISU.

I felt awful about the dispute issue and how this long waited and well prepared event has been unfolded. My prayers and thoughts are with Evan and all the ELFFs being hit by this unfortunate incident.

Stay positive and strong, after storm, we'll see the rainbow. :1st:

Thanks Sunny for that information. It is nice to know the music. I'll have to youtube it to give a listen to at least the flavor of it. Tho' I know it won't be the cut he uses it will help.

About the fine. I've looked it up and the exact rule is: fine for withdrawal due to reasons other than medical or other justifiable reasons. . .

Seems to me no contract is a justifiable reason!! Just saying and hoping this is the case for Evan.

Still if it isn't, it just further reinforces my belief that the issues at stake are really vitally important to Evan for him to have known this, as no doubt he does, and still pursues this path.

:thankyou: for the link. I would love to see Evan's skate to Samson and Delilah.

Mary, I agree that this is very important to Evan to have withdrawn and possibly have to pay a penalty for doing so.

Since we know that Evan is not greedy, there MUST be a very JUSTIFIABLE reason indeed for his withdrawal.

Like I said yesterday, we're totally on the outside looking in and really have very little actual knowledge and clearly don't have all the facts.

I say we all just take a deep breath, and thank God Evan is in great shape and healthy!

There WILL be some major rainbows coming Evan's way... :)

What I don't understand is that since there was NO contract, he did not have a contract to breach (break) and therefore how can he pay damages (the fine) on it? I know I learned this much in my Law and Economics course, at least... :huh:

Regardless, glad to hear about his programs!

That's exactly what I was thinking too. No contract = justifiable reason not to be there = no liability for a fine. Hope the ISU sees it that way, but with them you never know. Sometimes logic seems to escape TPTB!!

Yes I'm excited about the programs too. Firebird is so him. Next step - a peek at Vera's costumes for these. ( I hear the Olympic Firebird costume is headed for or already at the Smithsonian. Now isn't THAT cool?)

EXACTLY is right! No contract = no breach. Period.

Yes, it is very cool that Evan's Firebird costume will be at the Smithsonian!

Actually to clarify, the rule does not mention breach of contract. As you say, no contract = nothing to breach. But that's not the issue.

The rule says medical or other "justifiable reason" to withdraw will result in a penalty.

The question here then becomes do they - at the ISU - consider lack of a contract a "justifiable reason?" That's what could, and I say COULD, be a gray area.

"Justifiable reason" can be the reason of having no contract. He can't pay a fine for that justifiable reason, but he can also be exempt from the fine because he can't pay damages for a non-existent contract that he didn't agree to because of that justifiable reason of it being non-existent.

Confusing way of wording it, I know.

Confusing maybe - but strangely I get it. :lol:

Why should this be any different than any of the rest of the entire story? The only thing I'm NOT confused about is who to support. :wub:

Due to ISU deadlines, the USFSA had to request that Evan be assigned to compete in the GP before the contract between Evan & USFSA was finalized. Unfortunately, the contract was not finalized before the August 15th deadline for Evan to accept the GP assignments. Since skaters cannot compete on behalf of the USFSA without entering into a contract with the USFSA, Evan had no choice but to WD when the parties could not agree to the terms of the contract. Therefore, Evan had a justifiable reason to WD from the GP.

Ah - the light in the dark. THANK you for setting the record straight with the ins and outs of the process.

Talk about a rock and a hard place with Evan stuck in the middle. OUCH!! :cryoutloud:

Whew!

OKAY, now we have more information and, frankly, it doesn't sound too egregious, but very frustrating for Evan and all of us.

Onward and upward!

Bottom line for this discussion anyway - no fine!!

And that's good news.

*Here* (<--link) is an interesting article on the matter that I just came across. It's relatively short and touches on a few issues like viewer interest, what it means for Evan going forward, etc.

Thanks for the link, elle.

I agree with the author that Evan will compete in Nationals only if he believes he can be very competitive on the international scene.

His work ethic and drive are legendary and, frankly, even missing the GP series will not hamper his dogged determination. If there's any skater that can miss the GP series and still win Nationals and Worlds, it's Evan!

Thank you! That was very interesting and much along the lines of things we've been speculating on here.

Do you know who the blogger is? Anything about credentials and where her information comes from? Is it mostly speculation, educated guesses?

Whatever, at first glance what she has to say is quite insightful, if nothing really new.

I'm not sure I agree that Evan takes the biggest hit though by missing out. He's not the same level skater he was in those years she was referencing, he's advanced a long way and I do not believe will need the same length of time to reach the next level that it took him back then. So of course, I'm sure he wants all the time and experience of competition he can get, and he's said he won't wait until the year before Sochi to start the run, still he has time to perfect and polish.

Thanks again for a good read. I've bookmarked that site and will be on the lookout for more.

ITA, Mary!! :thumbup:

Just noticed how far off topic we have strayed - all roads seem to lead back to the "story" of the weekend. For good reason but . . .

Now about Samson and Delilah. Is anyone familiar with this so I know a good version to listen to? One thing I'm sure of, it will be powerful and dramatic - with a "soft" spot in the middle to showoff his gorgeous lines. Oh I can't wait to see this one!

Meryl Davis and Charlie White skated to it a couple years ago and that is on youtube. Or if you didn't want to see other people skate to it, I'm sure just the piece of music itself is on youtube somewhere. :D

Samson and Delilah will be a great program. I may faint. :cloud9:

Me too! Samson and Delilah will highlight Evan's strenth and personality perfectly. Frank Carroll is excited about Evan's new program, I'm sure it'll be super stunning, another master piece!!! :1st:

Here is an interview AS did with Frank at Nebelhorn Trophy, with a little bit of Evan mention:

The German resource I posted on p1 probably got the new program info from Frank at Nebelhorn too.

^Thanx Sonnenschein. I enjoyed the whole interview with Frank. ("I'm not afraid that they are going to take lessons from other people, because if they don't think I'm the greatest thing in the world they should go elsewhere anyway." :lol2: )

Good point about the German source. Now it makes sense why they'd have the scoop on Evan's new program.

Thanks! I"ll check out Meryl and Charlie's version. I can watch them skate it w/out it interfering with my appreciation when Evan skates it. They are so totally awesome.

Thanks Sunny!! Great read - love Frank!! Excited about the idea of Evan going to his rink for 6-7 weeks soon. I'll bet the two will be glad to get back to working together on a regular basis. That said, it shows just how far Evan has come in being able to get the "rave" notices from Frank even when he's been training elsewhere.

Learned a lot in this topic. I like the choice of Evan's programs. Firebird for him is iconic. It will be fabulous, except the ending footwork won't be able to earn as many points as it did in the Olys with the rule changes. I like the Samson and Delilah choice. It will be good for Evan to interpret.

If Evan settles his contract, he will have to compete at Nationals whether he feels he is competition ready for Worlds or not. The only way he could withdraw is for medical reasons. He can't shy away from ISU competition. He needs the experience of competing on the international level in order to be ready for Sochi because everybody else is getting ready for Sochi too. Even though there was a lot of bad skating at SA, I am sure Kozuka and Brezina will have upped their ante by Worlds. And SC had some pretty good skating from Takahashi, Chan, Fernandez and others. Everyone will need a quad or two at Sochi, so Evan needs to get his out there, both at Nationals and Worlds.

I do agree with the article that Evan took a hit from not competing in the GP. Even though he is a better skater than two years ago, he hasn't competed in two years, and everyone needs all the competition experience they can get. Being out for the GP season, for whatever reason, always puts a skater at a disadvantage because they haven't been able to try out their programs and get those quads out there. It isn't going to be any different for Evan. Evan is mentally tough, but it is going to make it more mentally tough for him, knowing that he must win #1 or #2 spot at Nationals because that is all there is to qualify for Worlds. I think it will definitely be possible, but we have seen Abbott beat him in 2009 and 2010, and I don't want to see anybody beat him or put him in third place in 2012, because he won't have a chance to show up and peak at Worlds. He hopefully will have an opportunity to compete at Four CC. I would just be feeling a lot more comfortable if he had the opportunity to compete for the GP series before Nationals.

As you said yourself, Mary, I am more of an analytical fan. I do not look at the landscape with rose colored glasses. Evan has three weeks to settle this contract. And quite frankly, it has bothered me that for the past week, instead of being in LA taking care of business, he has been on the east coast visiting colleges for Deloitte.

Just a note about Deloitte, Carley. I think that might be a USOC obligation that Evan was committed to. I believe other Olympians have also been apearing on the Deloitte collge tour.

Oh, I know about the tour. It is just interesting to me that these engagements took place during Skate America. I don't quite understand Evan's thinking. He was supposed to be at SA. He WD the Friday before. So I am thinking he contacted Deloitte and told them he was available that week for the tour? Or was he already committed to the tour knowing he was already going to WD from SA. He can't be in two places at once. If his contract was derailed and he just suddenly notified Deloitte that he was available for the tour that week, I think he could have better used his time to try to work out his contract. That is what I was trying to say.

It's hard to say. Deloitte has 15 different athletes they use on the tours. Who knows how they assign them to the various stops on the tour. Perhaps someone else was supposed to appear at Georgetown and/or Carnegie Mellon, and Evan filled in because he became available.

Evan Tweeted that he was heading East for the Deloitte speaking engagement during the time that he was supposed to be at Skate America; however, the speaking engagement was not actually until the Tuesday after Skate America. If he had competed at Skate America, he could have made it to the East Coast in time for the Tuesday speaking engagement. When I saw Evan's Tweet about heading East, my first thought was that he was sending the the message that he would not be anywhere near Citizens Bank Arena during Skate America.

That's my understanding, too. Melinda - that the Deloitte appearance dates were AFTER SA, so even had he been able to compete there, he would've been able to be on the east coast in plenty of time.

And it really doesn't matter what we think about how Evan uses his time. He's the best judge of how it's best used.

You are both right. I was mistaken and got the dates wrong. I should not have assumed anything about how Evan was spending his time. Those appearances were most likely arranged to occur after SA.

I think all of you are correct about the appearances being arranged to occur after SA. Evan could have skated at SA and still made the Deloitte appearances. I really don't know how the athletes are assigned to the tour either. Just saying, Evan could have done both.

And the next stop on the tour is today (11/1) at the University of Michigan. I know Mary appreciates that one. ;)

You bet I do!! Wish I could be there. Tho' I'm not an MBA alumnus - I have very fond memories of my days there!!

Do we know if Evan will be one of the speakers there? or is this general tour information?

I do know he was there last fall - two days before I saw him in Texas at the Skating and Gymnastics Disson Show. We did have a chance to touch base about his day there.

I haven't found anything that says which athlete is appearing at each stop.

http://careers.deloitte.com/united-states/...ContentID=17049

That's the main link where you can access athletes' bios, see an interactive map of all the stops, etc. If there's a link that matches the athletes to the locations, I haven't found it.

Since Evan hasn't tweeted about it, I'm guessing he's not at this stop.

Thanks for the link. Loved the picture and his bio.

I expect you're right - hadn't thought about the tweet factor.

I like how he often tweets about where he's making appearances!

:thumbup: Me too!!