Title: Tycho Celchu
Jesina Dreis - August 17, 2006 05:58 PM (GMT)
I think by now y'all know I like writing (and torturing :whistling: ) Tycho... and because of that I'm curious what you all think of him as a character and how you approach his character. I think if you rank the pilots in order of their 3-dimensionality, it'd be Wedge, Janson, Tycho, and Hobbie. We know Tycho's background, we know what he's been through, but the only words I can think of to describe him are quiet and stoic.
So, I guess I'm curious what people do with him and where your characterizations are drawn from?
RedBirdie - August 17, 2006 06:14 PM (GMT)
I have a confession-when I think a Tycho, I always think of the famous astronomer. So when I write Tycho, I try and take things from Tycho Brahe-aristocrat, reclusive, obsessive.
Corellia's Dream - August 17, 2006 10:34 PM (GMT)
I guess generally I find Tycho a little difficult to warm to, but I've written some things from his point of view. (In Honour Clear is entirely Tycho's POV).
I think that I tend to bring out his 'stiff-upper-lip' characteristics. He does have strong feelings, but prefers to keep them to himself. Only around trusted friends like Wedge and Winter is he more open.
Astronut - August 17, 2006 11:00 PM (GMT)
Tycho is actually one of the harder characters for me to write in character. Too complicated. How I write Tycho usually depends on when I'm writting him and who's in the scene.
Comic Tycho was very brash and less reserved than post-Lusankya Tycho, so I try to work that in. He's also a tad bit more depressed and philosophical in the books than in the comics. Again, all Isard's fault. And Stackpole's.
I picture him very formal and quiet in most settings, but relaxed around the older Rouges. I also see him as amusingly formal around Winter.
I think we get the best glimpses of him in the comics, Krytos Trap, and SoA. And a tiny bit in I, Jedi. There are a few Tycho gems in Betrayal and Rebel Stand too. There is some great information on him in the other Rogue books, but so much of it is colored by Corran's suspiscions.
frustratedstudent - August 18, 2006 09:32 AM (GMT)
I have a serious problem writing Tycho because he is in my opinion, quite mysterious. We know he is an honorable man, a great pilot, and a loyal friend, but he's so quiet compared to Wes, Hobbie, and Corran.
I'm sure, like everyone who's responded here, that Tycho does feel strongly about many things and people, but he's mastered the art of being discreet. And that can be pretty cool in real life, but hard to deal with in fanfiction.
Corellia's Dream - August 18, 2006 03:52 PM (GMT)
I think Tycho relaxes and opens up as he gets older. He's less reserved where he appears in the NJO stories, and by the time of 'Betrayal' he does a marvellous double-act with Wedge, winding up Jaina and Zekk. Plus that moment where Wedge tricks him into ducking for cover. Wedge probably wouldn't have done that to him around the time of the earlier X-wing novels.
Tycho certainly is brasher and more impulsive in the comics. I guess the impulsiveness kind of got knocked out of him by his time in Lusankya. It's possible he felt somewhat in Wedge's shadow until Wedge left Rogue Squadron for Fleet Command and his Lusankya task force. With Wedge off playing with the big toys, Tycho finally got to be undisputed Rogue Leader. He wasn't just filling in for Wedge, as he did while Wedge was off with Wraith Squadron.
frustratedstudent - August 18, 2006 04:00 PM (GMT)
I agree. Wedge's reassignment gives Tycho more chances to redefine himself as beyond simply "Tycho Celchu, Wedge's trusty pilot from Rogue Squadron".
-thor- - August 18, 2006 04:12 PM (GMT)
To me Tycho has a layer of durasteel instead of a skin. He's not playing the distanced, unapproachable aristorcrat - he is one. His emotions are something to be kept inside and away from decision making. Whether this is a result of his upbringing or his time in the Imperial Academy I cannot say. He (probably) believes that a good officer has to keep his distance from subordinates save his real friends. Remember when Wedge tried to emulate this he failed, but I think it suits Tycho's character.
Durell - August 18, 2006 04:24 PM (GMT)
Yeah, I think that Tycho seperats job and private very strictly, too. At least after Lusankya. (His character from the Comics to the books has changed the most from the old ones) When he is with his friends at priavte circumstances I do see him as a warm, outcoming person with a lot of humour and willing to do some mischieve. I know people like him and I think it makes his character even more interesting and a very good friend to keep.
Wedge had his reasons to fight so bitterly for his friends in the books.
Spee - August 18, 2006 09:03 PM (GMT)
Sometimes when I'm trying to get a hold of a character I try to imagine how I would react/what I would think if I met them randomly on the street/a party/etc., knowing nothing about them.
If I met Tycho, I think I would be put off by him at first. I think my first reaction would be to label him a rich snob, and pretty cold and unfeeling. I probably wouldn't make much effort to be his friend.
Which would be a shame, because I think Tycho would be the kind of guy you need to go beyond first impressions with. Obviously he's very loyal, dedicated, and a good friend...I think he knows he's skilled but doesn't have a blown up view of himself (one of those people who may seem arrogant but have a reason for it)...a bit of a philosopher...doesn't care for the spotlight, but takes charge when need be...if I had to Myers-Briggs him, I'd say he was a INTP.
Jesina Dreis - August 18, 2006 10:04 PM (GMT)
Jesina Dreis - September 10, 2006 07:35 PM (GMT)
No one answered me :(
New topic: Tycho as Rogue leader
I tend to keep Wedge as Rogue Leader in my fics (hell, they're all AUs anyway :p ) and Tycho as XO. His role tends to be, in my stories, a lot like the rest of the Rogues, only he's more invovled in planning, etc. But in a couple of my fics I'm going to be writing him as Rogue Leader, w/ Wedge more or less out of the picture. What do the rest of you tend to do with him, and what sort of leadership style do you really see him as having? Is he similar to Wedge, but a little more straight-laced? Where does his tolerance for Janson's antics end? Etc.
Astronut - September 10, 2006 07:59 PM (GMT)
Introverted Intuitive Thinking Perceving - I had to look it up.
Tycho as RL:
I'm really quite sad we don't see him in this role often, only glimpses as a normal officer in I, Jedi and when he hijacks command from Wedge in SoA.
My notes from when I write him for AoA:
Alderaanian, pacifist descent but knows that sometimes you have to fight. Where is that line drawn? Justice vs Revenge. Qwi gives problem – built the Death Star, but now wants to help New Republic and is Wedge’s girlfriend. Loyal to Wedge, who stuck by him in trial, but doesn’t like Qwi. Stuck in command of Rogues. Imperially trained, tighter ship than Wedge. Not as good with morale. Gets along better with Hobbie. Tense moments with Wes in past, but Wes trusts him now. Not the pranking that’s present with Wedge around.
I see him as a little more by the book than Wedge, a little more hesitant to risk the squadron. He's used to being in Wedge's shadow, and I think he would be a little uncertain on his own. But he's a perfectly capable leader, it's just he isn't as innovative. I don't think Wes would give him the same problems he gives Wedge, he knows Tycho wouldn't appreciate it as much.
Jesina Dreis - September 10, 2006 08:14 PM (GMT)
I more or less agree. Curious: Where'd you get the thing about him having tense moments with Janson in the past? I get that feeling too, but I don't know from where.
Astronut - September 10, 2006 08:27 PM (GMT)
Oh, I know exactly where I get it from: Reading fanfic about Rebel Opposition before reading the comic myself. Tends to color my perspective. Plus, it's a great way to explain why we never have any Tycho/Wes moments in canon.
Durell - September 10, 2006 09:04 PM (GMT)
One interesting point about Tycho and Wes is that you never see those two being paired up. I've always got the impression that the first thing that draw them together with their friendship towards Wedge and this made them to think again about their opinions about each other.
Jesina Dreis - September 11, 2006 12:04 AM (GMT)
What fic(s), do you know?
Astronut - September 11, 2006 12:29 AM (GMT)
Spee - September 11, 2006 08:50 AM (GMT)
Ooo, I've read that, it's good.
Jesina Dreis - April 14, 2008 07:15 PM (GMT)
Upping this. Because.
And a new topic.
I see Tycho as pretty rigid, internalizing things, unwilling to discuss his feelings & struggles, etc. And I feel like in a tense enough situation that would bring him to a breaking point -- as I've written in both Shades and What We May Be, as well as (to a somewhat lesser degree) Nothing Left to Lose (in adult).
So I'm curious how the rest of you think about this. I don't know really, other than the comments people have left in my story threads, what people really thought about the approaches I took... though that's not really what I'm asking.
Do you think Tycho could be pushed to the breaking point?
What would it take? A particularly bad mission? The loss of a good friend? The loss of Winter?
What would his breaking point look like? Drinking? Spice? Depression? Suicide? Other psychological problems? A lesser breakdown of sorts?
Corellia's Dream - April 14, 2008 11:08 PM (GMT)
I think Tycho could be pushed to a breaking point, but then anyone could be under the right circumstances.
I think in Tycho's case, the feeling of being abandoned would be one possibility. He has no living family, and has only his friends for support. The way he was treated by the New Republic after his capture by Isard put a great deal of strain on him. He tells Wedge that being wrongly imprisoned on Coruscant, accused of Corran's murder, is really no different to how it's been for him since his return from Lusankya.
Presumably he's had some support from Winter since his return, but she's often away on missions. She's undercover on Corsucant before the Rogues arrive there.
Wedge is his only ally within Starfighter Command, and the only one there who believes wholeheartedly that he is not a danger to the NR. If Wedge had not been fighting for Tycho to be allowed to do as much as possible against the Empire, I think Tycho would have been pushed into a breakdown. He would have felt abandoned by friends, fellow pilots and the military he'd dedicated himself to. He wants to fight back against the Empire that destroyed his family, and have destroyed his reputation. If he remained under suspicion, knowing that no one trusted him and that he was helpless to fight back, I think that would break him.
In those circumstances, I wouldn't be surprised if he took to drink or spice to try and ease the pain. Which he would hate himself for, and could lead to depression.
Jesina Dreis - April 14, 2008 11:12 PM (GMT)
You think Wedge is the only one who believes that? What about Hobbie and Janson ?
Corellia's Dream - April 14, 2008 11:22 PM (GMT)
They're off elsewhere training new pilots, and don't seem to have had much contact with Tycho since his return. I'm sure they'd give him the benefit of the doubt, and choose to believe he wasn't a Lusankya agent. However, neither has sufficient influence within the NR to get Tycho on active service again, as Wedge does. They'd offer moral support, and drinks, when they get the chance, but they're busy being useful and Tycho would be left sitting in his quarters, with nothing much to do except brood.
Also, if for some reason, Wedge isn't 100% sure of Tycho, that would influence their thinking.
Myri Antilles - April 15, 2008 12:54 AM (GMT)
If anyone can push him to his breaking point, it would be you, Jes. :P
That being said, I think his biggest problem would be if he felt he had lost his honor. Being from Alderaan, that's a really big deal for him.
Jesina Dreis - April 15, 2008 01:01 AM (GMT)
Haha, thanks, Myri. What do you think would make him feel he'd lost his honor?
CD, I'm very annoyed by the fact that Wes & Hobbs were not around during this period. How do you think they'd have thought about it? Do you think Wedge believed 100% in Tycho's innocence?
Myri Antilles - April 15, 2008 01:18 AM (GMT)
Well, the fact that he was part of the Empire is a good reason... I'm really surprised that didn't drive him over the edge, actually.
Jesina Dreis - April 15, 2008 01:24 AM (GMT)
Now you need to answer the second part of my question :P
Myri Antilles - April 15, 2008 01:27 AM (GMT)
What would he do? That's a trickier one... depending on the severity of his offense or perceived offense, I'd see him at the very least developing depression. He could turn to drinking, but I don't see him using spice. Although, I suppose he is technically capable of anything.
The real question is, what would drive him SO FAR over the edge so that he'd turn evil? (Murdering, etc.)
Jesina Dreis - April 15, 2008 01:46 AM (GMT)
Ooooh, that's a fabulous topic!!!
Hmm. I can see him turning to murder, but more out of revenge than being really evil. The only way I can see him being evil is either (1) if he completely cracked or (2) if he was amnesiac.
Addressing (2) first...
I can see any of the Fab Four (Wes the most, then Wedge, and then Tycho & Hobbs) being a heartless killer if situations had been different. Actually, I could probably see any of the folks in SW being a murdering criminal if the circumstances of their lives have been different; when you live so long in a galaxy where blasters are carried around as part of a standard outfit and death is all around you, it affects you in a certain way.
I think the reason Tycho is who he is, is the way he is, is because of how he was brought up. If you take that away, I definitely think he has within him the capacity to be a killer.
Beyond amnesia, I'm hard-pressed to find Tycho lose it enough to turn into a killer. When I think of him having some sort of breakdown, I see him as I've written him before--turning to alcohol or suicide. I think the closest I can get is what I've written in What We May Be. I'm putting this in quotes because it contains spoilers.
|In WWMB, and particularly in what I have planned for it, Hobbie's death makes Tycho snap. He's fed up with the NR & particularly with NRI's penchant for treating the pilots as expendable, and Winter's involvement is more than he can take. He turns to alcohol and, coupled with his anger and the habit he has (in my mind) of internalizing things until they reach a boiling point, he becomes violent. At first it's classic domestic violence--he's abusive, then apologetic. Then things escalate because he's out of control of his emotions and jealousy enters the picture and he nearly kills Winter.|
That's pretty much the extent I can see. I'm not sure that I can see anything more than that. I guess it needs to be a culmination of a lot of things to ever put Tycho to a point where he really breaks and goes over that edge.
But I can definitely see Tycho reaching a point of murder out of revenge. Not evilness, per se, but revenge. If someone killed Winter, particularly in a terrible way (torture, rape, any kind of brutality), then I can see revenge driving him to murder. I think it would have to be extreme, though, for him to be pushed to murder rather than bringing the killer to justice.
Corellia's Dream - April 15, 2008 12:00 PM (GMT)
Tycho is capable of acting from anger at times. Just think how in 'The Phantom Affair' he loses his temper with the Ante-Endor Association. The other members of Rogue Squadron ignore the AEA's propaganda, but Tycho approaches them to protest. When they later assult him, he punches out the ringleader even after the man has been temporarily blinded by the ghost Jedi.
In the books he tends to be more self-contained, though through the first 3 X-wing novels, he's keeping himself under strict control as he's under suspicion after returning from Lusankya.
It is difficult to see him as a cold-blooded killer, as you say. Efficient at eliminating enemies who've chosen to go into battle again him, certainly ("a typically surgical Tycho kill"). I did him as ruthless in 770, but it's not a way I'd often portray him.
Jesina Dreis - April 15, 2008 12:37 PM (GMT)
That line - "typically surgical Tycho kill" has stuck with me. It always interested me because it was a sort of realization for me that when Tycho fights, he fights to kill--not to disarm or leave a ship dead in space. Not that soldiers don't shoot to kill ordinarily, but... I'm sure you know what I mean.
I just read a fic in which Wedge observes that while he's not sure he could have taken out Donos in whichever x-wing book that was, he believes Tycho could have without blinking. Goes so far as to comment to Tycho that he doesn't have feelings.
And all of this, Tycho's abject willingness to kill, is very interesting in light of the fact that he's from a pacifist world. I wonder how much his culture's beliefs, even though he doesn't subscribe to them, weigh on his conscience.
Myri Antilles - April 15, 2008 03:40 PM (GMT)
I think maybe that's why he has the "surgical kill." His method of killing his enemies is efficient and minimal. He doesn't spend a lot of time dwelling on it.
Jesina Dreis - April 15, 2008 04:40 PM (GMT)
But by the same token he gives them no chance to live. A surgical kill could be aimed at any part of the ship and I'm certain they know of ways to disable even a fighter rather than destroy it.
So why aim to kill rather than leave an enemy dead in space ?
Corellia's Dream - April 15, 2008 04:47 PM (GMT)
I got the impression that 'surgical kill' is an extension of the expression 'surgical precision'. To do something with surgical prescision is to be very neat and precise. Wedge obseves that Tycho has eliminated an enemy with a single, neat shot that killed the pilot and left the ship largely undamaged, rather than taking several shots or a messy explosion. It's like using a surgical knife to neatly remove just the tumour, rather than removing the entire limb.
I see the expression as Wedge admiring Tycho's ability to fly and shoot so precisely - his ability to keep calm under pressure.
Wedge knows as well as anyone in the galaxy that Tycho has feelings. It's just that Tycho can be remarkably good at keeping his feelings to himself, or at not allowing them to influence his behaviour (as when Wedge remarks at how calm he seems to be when on trial on Coruscant). It's interesting that Wedge is the one popularly supposed to have ice water in his veins, when by and large, he's more emotionally open than Tycho. Wedge reserves his emotional armour for command, whereas Tycho applies it more often in his personal life.
Jesina Dreis - April 15, 2008 04:59 PM (GMT)
It's interesting that Wedge is the one popularly supposed to have ice water in his veins, when by and large, he's more emotionally open than Tycho.
I've been thinking the exact same thing.
Are there any points in the books where we see Tycho express real emotion in a less-than-controlled way (other than the part in the comics you mentioned where he confronts the protestors)?
Astronut - April 16, 2008 12:45 AM (GMT)
I can't think of any of the books where we see him visably react emotionally, save for Wedge/Corran/Syal noticing facial cues or lack there of. The only thing that may come close is his Return in BW where he deviates from his speech, but it's still very controlled. He pulls a crazy stunt in Fury, but he's very cold about it.
He's a lot more emotional in the comics, but that's pre-Lusankya. There's the protestors in PA and he's pretty upset when Wedge 'dies' in MR.
Jesina Dreis - April 16, 2008 01:04 AM (GMT)
What crazy stunt is that?
You make an interesting point. I wonder how Lusankya changed the way he deals with his emotions. I wonder if he closed himself off some because of what he went through during and after his imprisonment, and just couldn't bring himself to open up again.
Astronut - April 16, 2008 02:07 AM (GMT)
I think there's a line some where in BW where Wedge asks Tycho why he's not angry and Tycho makes a crack about once being a guest of the Imperial correction system. So there's definitely something there.
Tycho's crazy stunt:
|Wedge takes Tycho 'prisoner' since they're technically on opposite sides of the war but they both want to help Luke and the Jedi defeat Jacen. Luke wants to use Tycho's 'captured' shuttle to secretly board Jacen's ship during a battle. During the battle, Wedge allows Tycho to fly into combat with him to 'observe' the battle as long as Tycho's comm is slaved to Wedge's so he won't warn the GA of the attack. During the battle, Tycho separates from Wedge's flight and does a bit of fancy, death defying flying to land in a GA hanger. He believes duty is more than important than his friend's wife even if he agrees with what she and the Jedi are up to, so he pulls out his commlink and warns the GA that the shuttle is no longer his and contains enemy forces, which includes Luke, Leia, Han, Ben, and Iella. He then gets shot in the chest with a stun bolt and is out of the story. (He is recovering fine in medbay at the end.) |
(CD: If you want to get into Fury again, we can take this to a new topic. Pleanty of angst bunnies to hatch and beat to death. :D)
Mirax_Corran - April 16, 2008 02:32 AM (GMT)
Um, totally off-topic from the actual discussion of Tycho (somewhat, anyways) which I'll contribute my thoughts to later.
|OMG NO TYCHO! That breaks my heart and provides about all the incentive to not keep reading LotF that I needed. Please please please tell me that he and Wedge have a nice friendly we're still best buds moment at some point or my life will be meaningless. (Well, not really, but this is heartbroken hyperbole.)|
Astronut - April 16, 2008 02:41 AM (GMT)
|Wedge frets a moment after Tycho seperates that Tycho is going to get himself killed, but then is promptly distracted by Rogue Squadron attacking him. |
Note the 'out of story' comment. There's no real resolution to this and unless Denning uses the characters in Invincible, there won't be any.
However, before this there's some really good Wedge&Tycho and Tycho&Syal scenes that I thought were worth the book. So don't give up LotF just yet.
So we can get back on topic, I'll start a Fury thread tomorrow unless someone beats me to it. :batting: