The Movie Thread Part II

To be fair as well, though, people do use smbolysm without intent sometimes - a superficial connection is still a connection. The Matrix was using Judeo-Christian symbolism from the het go, even before the sequels came out - Zion, Nebuchadnezza, Trinity, etc, etc.

Interestingly enough, here's an bit someone else wrote regarding the Matrix as a Christian or Gnostic allegory:

(From here)

I don't remember Jesus taking his stand against a army, but I suppose you want us to view Sauron and his forces like representations of mankind's inner evil.
Personally speaking, it doesn't really seem intended that way to me.

I don't think people who say that Gandalf is a Christ-like figure intend for every single detail of the story to be taken as having an exact parallel to something that Jesus did - like you said yourself earlier. You would need to look more into the motivations of the character and the reasoning behind there actions, self-sacrifice, etc.

But if you take it that loosesly, like I said, a good half or more of all time heroes become Jesus like (even ones that were thought of earlier than 2000 years ago, I'm sure)

Well, there are parallels between Jesus and mythological figures which predated him - there is debate that some of the details of the story of Jesus' life were derived from pre-existing cultural myths (Osiris, Mithras, Krishna, Dionysu, et al), but that's a different thread entirely Plus, it's Jesus who is more ingrained in the popular conciousness, so he's the one who gets all the allegory based on him.

Based, or attributed by people seeing something that isn't really there

Well, you'll have to take that one up with Possum

Heh... I thought you were agnostic Duke? Well, I've always wanted to ask you something but haven't in fear of offending you. But since you seem to want to offend me (which I've never understood, because you seem so sensative to when I challenge something you say, but yet do it to me all the time), I'll just go ahead and ask:

Is there really such thing as being agnostic? I mean, doesn't it sound like a contradiction to itself? "Oh, I'm not ruling out either side, but as for now I don't feel like listening to religion because I don't *know* that it's true, so I'll just act like there's not one." If you were really agnostic wouldn't you try to find out? Then again, all claims to being agnostic usually don't last long anyhow. It's like alive vs. dead. You're one or the other. And I've never met anyone who's truly agnostic, because of this, I've always wondered if being agnostic is possible, or if it's just every "agnostic" I've ever met is really just noncommital to religion, because they're not willing to do what they know to be right.

EDIT:

What's your point?

See... you should at least know more about religion before trying to debate using Christianity's beliefs. What about the prophets? You've overlooked one of Christianity's most basic (yet seemingly lost in Catholisism and those other protestant religions) beliefs. Prophets purpose are to testify and get us ready for Christ's coming. Which is my religion firmly believes that we need prophets to prepare and guide us for Christ's second coming. Assuming that there will be one.

This post has been edited by 2awesome4apossum on Dec 22 2005, 06:53 PM

Offend you? What makes you think so? I'm just saying that I don't see how Gandalf or Frodo relate to Christ (again, unless you go for the orcs=mankind inner evil metaphor, which I don't)

As an agnostic, I believe that there is no way to find out which religion is true/correct if any. It is also my belief that it doesn't matter. If there is a God and he/she is good, then he will recognize the merits of being a conscientious person, regardless of what religious belief you subscribe to (besides, if it really mattered, why wouldn't God write the bible on the stars where everybody can see it?)
Which also begs the question: what would be right? Not eating meat on Friday? I don't "know" so

My point is, that just being a hero doesn't make one a savior of souls nor a representation of that.
Still talking about Gandalf, in FotR we learn that the orcs are really fallen elves, who are quite noble creatures. Did Gandalf attempt to save them? Of course once again, you could go for elves=angels orcs=devils, but it just doesn't seem like that to me.

Fine I used the wrong date. I'm preety sure they had heros before those prophets though. Like the ones getting lots of food for everyone that were depicted on the walls of caves

Hmm, I don't really think that anything Duke has said here has been with the intention of offending anyone, unless there religious beliefs are somehow tied up with Gandalf being a religious icon

I read on a board once "Imagine if a single copy of LotR was to survive the nuclear holocaust. You'd have religious zealots shouting <<Gandalf is real! It says so in our holy book!>>"

Did anyone see that movie from a few years ago with the dragons that were awoken in the present and then wiped out human civilisation - in the post apocalyptic future, they were telling the Star Wars movies as folk lore. It wasn't presented as a religion, but it's a similar idea of the pop culture of today being the ground work of a new mythology tomorrow

Reign of Fire, yes. Would have been a good movie, but the final plot device of [spoiler]having just one male dragon which, killed, would extinct the species[/spoiler] was completely retarded.

[edit]That and I would like to know how the medievals could have dealt with them if modern armies couldn't...

This post has been edited by Duke Serkol on Dec 28 2005, 11:30 PM

That was it's name... it was on the tip of my tounge, but I couldn't remember

Yeah, that part was very 'movie logic' - have to keep things neat and simple, after all

And resolve the story in some way. Because open endings are just a no, no. Otherwise, how can they come up with contradictory sequels? (Not this one's case thankfully, but you know...)