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 Back Ground Graphics go above Char, possible bug
JamesBond007
Posted: Aug 19 2011, 01:48 PM


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QUOTE (Duke Serkol @ Aug 19 2011, 12:38 PM)
Mh... let's put it this way: if you guys can change the indoor patch back to the original palette and concurrently have an additional patch that fixes it to the way it should look (as it is now), then I'll be happy with that.

This will be the best solution. I can make two versions. I'm thinking about doing the same to the castle secret passage (currently it has new palette, but I need to figure out how to change it to make ALttP-like version).

BTW, I have another question about the indoors - are these Euclid's fixes (to fix chests, inverted stairs, etc.) available as separate patches? If they are available, then my work will be way easier. If not, then my work will be difficult and not guaranteed to accomplish.


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My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
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Duke Serkol
Posted: Aug 19 2011, 03:29 PM


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Unfortunately no, those fixes were all worked directly into the indoor patch.


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SmashManiac
Posted: Aug 19 2011, 04:08 PM


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The "weird" spikes is normal. It occurs in our dump and it also occurs in ALttP if I remember correctly.

As for the weird bomb and the green room, it's indeed possible that they were already fixed in the dump we have. Notice how the game freezes for a second when the bomb explode; I've never seen that happen before.


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KiddoCabbusses
Posted: Aug 19 2011, 07:03 PM


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QUOTE (Con @ Aug 19 2011, 12:42 PM)
well, I think this discussion is kind of stupid.

Regardless of your feelings on the matter, I think it's a bit extreme to consider the perspective of the more preservationist side of things as "stupid". (And that's putting it politely.)

I brought up the name of George Lucas for a very good reason. Can you guys all remember why the "Star Wars Special Editions" are so controversial? Or why a large amount of "remastered" video releases are controversial? Have you ever read this article or The TVTropes page it spawned? While this is already a digital product and not hand-drawn animation, it still goes to say that in this instance we're basically making an alteration to the game "just because", so it's very easy to see why a preservationist would not like that.

And on top of all that, the one other thing that makes this different is that we have no actual claim to ownership of the product in question. We can't really say for sure that it wasn't the original intent for the wooden tables to be green, and it's not even like they look all that bad colored in that palette.
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JamesBond007
Posted: Aug 19 2011, 07:41 PM


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QUOTE (Duke Serkol @ Aug 19 2011, 03:29 PM)
Unfortunately no, those fixes were all worked directly into the indoor patch.

That's bad, but I will try to separate them by doing these things:
- patching the roms with base and indoors patches.
- clearing the indoors (making all rooms black).
- making the patch in Lunar IPS by comparing two roms (with only the base patch and with "cleared" indoors).
Unfortunately, I won't be able to separate palette change in rooms 113 and 114 (w2-4) by doing this, but I will try to find it later with hex editor.

There is almost nothing to do with week 1, but I found few imperfections in few rooms (badly drawn tiles). They are not visible during gameplay, because they are covered with pots.

Update: I tried to separate the fixes, but failed - created patch glitches the indoors into pieces. sad.gif

This post has been edited by JamesBond007 on Aug 19 2011, 08:56 PM


--------------------
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
Top
RX_79
Posted: Aug 19 2011, 11:39 PM


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The bombing wall bug in the video, might be a result of a frame rate issue.

Some times recording devices dont pick up flashing images correctly.

AVGN talks about it in episode 102.

http://cinemassacre.com/2011/07/06/the-mak...ideo-game-nerd/
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SmashManiac
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 12:40 AM


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I thought about it too but this is inconsistent with my experience with video encoding and compression:
- The game seem to hang for some reason just before the glitch happens, as if a door unlocked instead. I don't think this normally occurs in the game.
- The explosion completely covers the area where the door should appear, so there should be no afterimage.
- The crack tiles are still displayed during the entire time the screen scrolls, which should have fixed the afterimage if there was one.

This post has been edited by SmashManiac on Aug 20 2011, 12:41 AM


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MadHatter
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 02:43 PM


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QUOTE (JamesBond007 @ Aug 19 2011, 07:41 PM)
Update: I tried to separate the fixes, but failed - created patch glitches the indoors into pieces. sad.gif
Curses! Thanks all the same, JB007. It's good to know that there are still differences between the version we have and the original. I think it has interesting implications for the question of how the game was developed and to what extent it was just a modified version of ALttP.

QUOTE (SmashManiac @ Aug 19 2011, 04:08 PM)
The "weird" spikes is normal. It occurs in our dump and it also occurs in ALttP if I remember correctly.
Hmm... Now you mention it I too seem to have a hazy memory that the spikes only hurt you while the battle is raging and that as soon as Trinexx dies the spikes cease to hurt. Their properties must change in preparation for two of them disappearing behind Trinexx I guess...

QUOTE (SmashManiac @ Aug 19 2011, 04:08 PM)
As for the weird bomb and the green room, it's indeed possible that they were already fixed in the dump we have.
This is a very good point. Considering that the game was broadcast and rebroadcast, there would have been ample opportunity to release altered versions with code corrections just like with modern online games. So it's quite possible that the bomb glitch and the greenness were later corrected by the original programmers in later canonical (i.e. original) versions of the game.

This post has been edited by MadHatter on Aug 20 2011, 02:44 PM
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JamesBond007
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 05:05 PM


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I found a theory regarding the stair bugs (both "character covered by stairs" and "inverted stairs").

These bugs were present in the original dump (I'm saying this again), but they were "fixed" during the broadcast. Sounds strange, but this might be possible. These "bugfixes" were transmitted over the satellite, but unlike the game, they were not saved on the 8M Memory Packs. Same with the indoors.


--------------------
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
Top
MadHatter
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 05:22 PM


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Did you find that theory in the last paragraph of the post immediately preceding yours? tongue.gif
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SmashManiac
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 05:31 PM


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I think what JamesBond007 is trying to say is that the game might have been patched in RAM by the BS-X but the patch was not actually saved on the 8M memory card.

That... it highly unlikely.

This post has been edited by SmashManiac on Aug 20 2011, 05:31 PM


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Duke Serkol
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 06:04 PM


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Anyone ever figured out why we were missing the indoor layouts anyway?


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JamesBond007
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 06:18 PM


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QUOTE (MadHatter @ Aug 20 2011, 05:22 PM)
Did you find that theory in the last paragraph of the post immediately preceding yours?  tongue.gif

MadHatter, Are you referring to the bomb glitch and green house, correct?

I know know what excatly caused this bomb glitch. Maybe it was just a one-time bug? We don't have any other week 4 videos covering the same area from the original broadcast.

The green house is definitely present in the original dump we have. To avoid confusion, I'm not referring to the prepatched version. If you patch the original rom (every week except w1) with the base patch only and view it in the editor, that house (rooms 113 and 114) will be indeed green, but without the indoors. wink.gif

Is it was fixed in the later broadcast? I don't know, but I rather doubt. Our dumps are from June 1997 I think (first rerun), but we don't have 1998 and 1999 dumps (they are likely lost forever sad.gif ).
QUOTE (SmashManiac @ Aug 20 2011, 05:31 PM)
I think what JamesBond007 is trying to say is that the game might have been patched in RAM by the BS-X but the patch was not actually saved on the 8M memory card.

That... it highly unlikely.

Exactly. Some data (the rom itself) were stored on 8M Memory Pack, and some other data (indoors, patches) were stored in Satellaview's volatile memory.


--------------------
My current Zelda "Skyward Split" Timeline:
---/--TMC--FS/FSA--ALttP/OoX/AST/LA--???--ALBW--TLoZ/TAoL
SS--OoT--TWW/PH--ST
---------\MM--TP
Top
Con
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 08:33 PM


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To make a short summary:

So the topics of this thread are now 2 different things you try to fix?

- making the green palette available for room 113, 114? this ain't a big problem I guess

- rework the stairs so that they aren't displayed at bg2 anymore? I still hope the editor can be updated to enable this option.

bomb/spikes are ok and maybe only the pots over lantern is a further issue?


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MadHatter
Posted: Aug 20 2011, 09:31 PM


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QUOTE (JamesBond007 @ Aug 20 2011, 06:18 PM)
QUOTE (MadHatter @ Aug 20 2011, 05:22 PM)
Did you find that theory in the last paragraph of the post immediately preceding yours?  tongue.gif
MadHatter, Are you referring to the bomb glitch and green house, correct?
Never mind. I thought you meant that the stairs bug may have been something present in the version of the game that was captured in the video but that a more recent version had come out later (still within the lifetime of the Satellaview during a rerun of the program) and that the later version ended up being the one that was dumped. If that's what you'd meant then it would've essentially been exactly what I saying just above but it looks like Smash understood you better.

Your idea that a patch sent alongside the original buggy code which wouldn't be saved to the 8M memory pack but would only exist in volatile RAM is interesting, but I don't see why they'd have done that when they had access to the original code anyway and they could have just released for broadcast an updated version of the rom which could be saved to the 8M pack.

This post has been edited by MadHatter on Aug 20 2011, 09:34 PM
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