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 Imperial Guard Command Squad, Work in Progress
Zany Reaper
Posted: 17 Feb 2007, 08:08 AM


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Imperial Guard Command Squad revision:

Seeing as the Imperial Guard command squad is currently wrong by Tabletop standards, Sunray (& probably someone else) suggested on the TTRU mod forums that this be changed.

These're the current plans, but these MIGHT change if things don't work out:
The squad starts with the Imperial Captain,
it can have 4 leader choices. These are: the Imperial Special Weapons veteran; the Imperial guard Field medic & the Imperial guard Master Voxcom.


The Special weapons veteran
starts of with either a grenade launcher or a plasma gun. The process is random & uncontrollable as to what weapon he starts with, but at least he provides some useful fire support compared to the original command squad. He is a standard Guardsman model.

The Imperial Captain is the only existing thing from the Command squad. No special extras for him, apart from a slight buff to the Strafing run.

The Guardsman Medic is an interesting form of support for the Command squad. He projects a very minor healing aura which gives a small boost to the regeneration rate of the Command squad.
HOWEVER, he also has a unique ability where within a small radius of the medic, infantry in the command squad have a small chance of not dying in combat, 20% to be precise. This represents his ability in Tabletop.

Finally, The Master Vox is a nasty support dude whom sets the morale of ALL guardsmen infantry owned by the player with the master vox to somewhere around 400. It varies depending on the initial morale of the squad (so it'll be higher for Kasrkin for example), but is very useful for bolstering the crappy morale of your guardsmen, & most of all - Conscripts.

The master Vox will probably be a replacement for the initial morale bonus of the death before Dishonour research. This research instead will enable production of the Master Vox in the command squad.

Oh yeah - You can attach Psykers, Commisars & Priests to it as well, just like any other guardsmen squad.


Now, Here are some screenshots of the models:

Medic:

user posted image


Master Vox back:

user posted image


Many thanks to Xamon for the model changes & animation work.


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sunray
Posted: 19 Feb 2007, 10:54 PM


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Zany Reaper,

I now have my Imperial Guard Codex back again. It seems you are right. The basic rule is that the Command Squad is made up of a commander and four guardsmen.

The officer can be a heroic senior officer, a senior officer, or a junior officer.

The guardsmen can be regular guardsmen, or veteran guardsmen

Guardsmen must be armed with either a lasgun, or a laspistol and close combat weapon.
One of the guardsmen can have a Special Weapon, and two of the guardsmen can form a Heavy Weapons team.

So says the Imperial Guard Codex (nearly word for word). The Command Squad entry doesn’t mention sergeants/veteran sergeants at all.

If you have a senior (or junior) officer, you can have a vox caster, a medic, and two guardsmen (regular or veterans). And, according to the Codex, these are the weapons options. The officer has access to the Imperial Guard Armoury. The vox caster, medic, and two guardsmen, can be armed with a laspistol and close combat weapon or a lasgun. One of the normal guardsman can exchange for a special weapon, or two of the normal guardsmen can exchange for a heavy weapon.

I particularly like the idea of the vox caster, and the medic, having chainswords as CC weapons. But then, your vox caster image, armed with the grenade launcher, looks good to me.

Once more, it is your mod, so you make the final decision.

Regards

sunray

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Zany Reaper
Posted: 20 Feb 2007, 09:36 AM


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The Master vox should definately NOT have a grenade launcher. The only reason that's in the screenshot is incase someone wants to mess around with it to give it a grenade launcher upgrade. He has a lasgun at standard, & like the medic - is non-upgradable.

The Master vox is based of the codex guardsman stats, whereas the Medic is based off the sergeant. This also means that they can have exactly the same weapon upgrades as their parents, if you wish. They're already programmed in the RGD files, just not used.

At the moment, you start with the Imperial Captain (who we can assume is the heroic senior officer), & the squad can add leaders to it, which are a single master vox, a medic or up to 4 special weapon guys.
However, there's a maximum of 4 leaders, so you can have 4 special weapon guardsmen, but no medic or Master Vox.
OR - you can have 2 special weapons, a medic & a master vox. Depends on how you upgrade it.

I swear you could give a HQ command platoon 4 special weapons guardsmen though. It wasn't limited to one where I saw it.


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WackyModder
Posted: 21 Feb 2007, 01:19 AM


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dont forget the standard bearer, zany! without him there wouldnt BE a command squad. but other than those 3, the rest of the squad would be just standard guardsmen then? overall tho, NICE WORK, GUYS! smile.gif

EDIT: and it wanst just sunray that suggested it, I did too! laugh.gif

EDIT #2: but if the standard bearer dont work out, cna we at least make him a seperate unit like the chaos undivided icon bearer or something?


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sunray
Posted: 21 Feb 2007, 02:25 AM


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Zany Reaper,

You have triggered a second look at my Imperial Guard Codex. And I have discovered more information about the Command Squad. You see, in parts of the Codex they have spread their organisational information out over double width pages. So half of the info on the Command Squad was sitting on the opposite page, and I didn’t notice this until I had a second look, after you questioned the weapons that the guardsmen were armed with.

The part (on the opposite page) that I didn’t see, goes on to say that any guardsman in the Command Squad, who is not part of a heavy weapons team, can be armed with a special weapon. So you are right. The four guardsmen, whether they be medic, vox caster, or just ordinary guardsmen, can be armed with a special weapon.

It also says that medics and standard bearers have to already be veterans.

WackyModder, Codex says that only a veteran can carry the company banner, and that only the command squad in the command platoon can have a standard bearer.

The command platoon consists of a command squad and 0 - 5 support squads. No more than 2 support squads of each type can be used in the command squad. The support squads can be:

Fire support squad - 3 heavy weapons teams (heavy bolter or autocannon)
Anti-tank support squad - 3 heavy weapons teams (lascannon or missile launcher)
Mortar support squad - 3 heavy weapons teams (mortar)
Sentinal support squadron - 3 Sentinals
Special Weapons support squad - 6 men with 3 special weapons (1 can be demo charge)

Yes you did also suggest a real command squad. And yes, I also like standard bearers (and veterans with shotguns).......

regards

sunray

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Zany Reaper
Posted: 21 Feb 2007, 11:25 AM


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Wackymodder - the Standard bearer would be almost completely pointless in the mod, for the Master Vox beats him in every way.
AFAIK - the Master Vox improves the morale off all squads in the field with a vox caster. Now, assuming that all sergeants have Vox casters in every guardsmen squad (they should), the Master Vox is better.

All the standard bearer does is re-roll morale checks. While that is useful for marines, & can't easily program that into the existing code. In addition, the Command squad shouldn't be some invulnerable leadership bitching squad. It's for support, & I want to keep it that way. Besides, if you put a Commissar into the squad, it becomes that anyways.
There's no point in having the standard bearer, especially since I'd have no clue on how to texture it.

Whilst I would like heavy weapons in the command squad, the game engine simply wouldn't work for them. Sentinels would be do-able however, but wouldn't that crap-up the path-finding? Furthurmore, I thought that they were deployed separately?

Veteran shot-gunners... I've heard a lot of bad things about IG veterans in that they simply aren't worth their points for the simple reason that you can swap them for special weapons instead.
Though in what way are veterans better than guardsmen (apart from their needlessly improved leadership value)?
What sorts of wargear can they have?

If they can have loads of decent wargear items (like power swords), then I might have them in the game (I'll probably do a conversion from the Medic model).


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sunray
Posted: 22 Feb 2007, 10:49 PM


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Zany Reaper,

You’re right. The IG command squad shouldn’t be some sort of super powered unit. It is there for support. And we must keep in mind that the IG are only human, they are not endowed with any larger than life powers, like the Space Marines. Their power should reside in their massed firepower. After all, that’s why we wanted to get rid of that unreal command squad that came with WA.

The Codex says that Sentinals come in a squadron. But the squadron can have 1 -3 Sentinals. Just like the infantry platoon can have 2 – 5 infantry squads. The command platoon has a Sentinal squadron of 3.

As far as heavy weapons in the command squad. The Codex says that you can have them in any squad except special weapons or Storm Trooper (Kasrkin) squads. And I know that, at the moment, it is impossible to include them in a squad because of game engine limitations. But bear in mind that Medes is re-configuring the heavy weapons teams so that they can be included in squads (and I expect that they will be very nice). So when you are setting up your squads, keep this in mind for after their mod is released. As many of their units will be open for all mods to use. Also, heavy weapons teams in the Command Platoon are definitely deployed as squads, of three teams each.

The following info covers Veterans:

Veteran guardsmen can be armed with a lasgun, or a shotgun, or a laspistol and close combat weapon.

Veteran squads are constituted the same as normal squads (including having two guardsmen forming a heavy weapons team) except for the fact that a Veteran squad can have three special weapons soldiers instead of the one that the normal squad can have. The Veteran sergeant has access to the Imperial Guard Armoury, and can be equipped with any weapon that is classified as for officers use only. So I guess his armoury can include such weapons as plasma pistol, bolt pistol, storm bolter, power fist, chain sword, power sword, etc.

I hope this helps.

regards

sunray

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Zany Reaper
Posted: 23 Feb 2007, 06:20 PM


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Can a command squad in ANY WAY have more than 2 power swords in it?

I'm thinking that shooting upgrades aren't the only special weapons veterans can have.


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sunray
Posted: 25 Feb 2007, 06:21 AM


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The Codex doesn't say much about who can have power swords. It says, in the Imperial Guard Armoury section, that power claws are for officers only. But doesn't mention power swords at all.

It says that any guardsman in the command squad, who is not armed with a special weapon, equipped with a vox castor, or part of a heavy weapons team, can be armed from the Imperial Guard Armoury. The table of weapons, in the Imperial Guard Armoury, does not mention swords at all.

This oversight in the Codex could be used as a window of opportunity.

regards

sunray

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Zany Reaper
Posted: 25 Feb 2007, 08:01 AM


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Oh, well I guess we can't have much of a decent CLose-combat command squad then...

Still needs more testing...


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sunray
Posted: 25 Feb 2007, 11:00 AM


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I don't know so much. It says that guardsmen in the command squad can be veterans, and veterans can be armed with lasguns, shotguns, or chain sword and laspistol.

So, what's not close combat about a chainsword and laspistol combination, or a shotgun.

Or you could choose to have a veteran sergeant in the command squad as well, perhaps armed with a plasma pistol and chain sword.

regards

sunray

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Zany Reaper
Posted: 25 Feb 2007, 11:02 AM


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Guardsmen with chainswords are as crappy as Chaos Cultists are, they'll just get mowed down.

That's why I want power swords, yummy!
But no I guess... All shooty as usual.

THe command squad is really fun when used with the HP modifier! Get the general into close-combat & he makes a mess of low-morale squads!


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WackyModder
Posted: 28 Feb 2007, 01:08 AM


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technically the general should be his own unit, the leader of the command squad last time i checked was an elite sergeant. nothing about the commander himself.


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sunray
Posted: 28 Feb 2007, 02:38 AM


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WackyModder,

Technically, you are probably right. The "General" is an army commander and is his own entity. Whereas the colonel is a regimental commander, the captain is a company commander, and the lieutenant is a platoon commander. Regimental commanders, company commanders, and platoon commanders, have command squads attached to them.

From the Imperial Guard Codex book - A command squad consists of an officer, chosen from the list above (Heroic senior officer, senior officer, junior officer) and a personal staff of 4 guardsmen.

Basic weapons – Officers carry a laspistol and close combat weapon. Guardsmen are armed with either a lasgun or a laspistol and close combat weapon (basic weapons can be upgraded as per Codex).

regards

sunray

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Zany Reaper
Posted: 28 Feb 2007, 11:17 AM


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I'll change the UCS description from 'Imperial captain' to 'heroic senior officer' then Ok? That should even stuff.

Mind you, the original Command squad's captain looks a lot like Ursarkar E. Creed, doesn't he?


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sunray
Posted: 28 Feb 2007, 08:45 PM


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I'm not suggesting you change the description to heroic senior officer. The point I was making was that the Codex says the leader of the command squad is definitely an officer, and whether he be senior of junior depends on what command squad it is. Platoon, company, or regiment. a Platoon commander would be lieutenant, a company commander would be a captain, and a regiment commander would normally be a colonel. And a general would be an army commander.

The original command squad captain does look something like colonel Usarkar E. Creed. But to me he looks more like batman, or superman, with his flowing cape and with his bright coloured and adorned uniform. Definitely not dressed like a battle hardened (human) regimental commander from TT.

I am not suggesting that the mod has to reflect exactly what is in TT, to the letter. All I am saying is that organisationally speaking, it should reflect what is in TT, and includes having the IG officers look more like normal humans (as they are in TT), instead of super heroes.

regards

sunray

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WackyModder
Posted: 28 Feb 2007, 08:46 PM


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no, zany! u cant! the Imperial Captain is his own unit. he cant be a senior officer. the Senior Heroic officer need to have his own model or something. OR just put a Codex Cadian Officer as the leader of the command squad! that sounds better!


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Zany Reaper
Posted: 1 Mar 2007, 09:53 AM


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*sigh* Fine, I'll guess I'll use that Codex model then. Which means I'll have to re-scale him too. What weapon options did Havoc give him (the C2C version)?

As for the Imperial General, he's awful! You claim he should be another unit in his own right however?

Do you know what his stats are?


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WackyModder
Posted: 1 Mar 2007, 08:26 PM


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which is why we have every right to boost his stats. i set him to have 1500 health with 4 bps regeneration rate. i dont see what the problem is there. as for the weapon options for the codex cadian officer. hes got:

- sword (starts off with)
- powersword
- powerfist
- laspistol (starts off with)
- bolt pistol
- plasma pistol


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sunray
Posted: 2 Mar 2007, 02:24 AM


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WackyModder,

You forgot to list the chain sword. My C2C officers all carry chain swords Why, because they look better.

And what's wrong with making a few changes to how the C2C officer looks, give him high stats, and make him a captain or a colonel. And use the old Relic captain as the general of the army (a single character without a command squad).

The C2C officer has 3 choices of head, that appear randomly. One with no helmet/cap but with a re-breather, one with only a cap, and one with only a helmet. There are your differences. Make the helmeted head a lieutenant, make the bare head with re-breather a captain, and make the head with the cap a colonel. Or another way might be to create another head with a beret....they look good. The Canadian Games Workshop site ran a project with three of its staff members creating their own personalised IG army from scratch. One of them created an airborne army with red berets. They looked excellent. And the original (classic) stormtroopers from Forgeworld all wore berets and carried big packs, just like the British SAS. Or so the pictures in my Imperial Guard Collectors Guide show.

regards

sunray

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