Title: Comments/Suggestions List #2 for TTRU
thudo - May 27, 2007 02:33 AM (GMT)
- Khorne Terminators cannot upgrade to Multimeta. Says it needs the Armoury (it was built) but the Multimeta option is still greyed out.
- Chaos Marines' Infiltration Toggle - Does that actually work?
- Bloodthirster button to conjure the BT in a squad is NOT there but if you click on the squad that has a sargent in the spot where the icon should be the BT is created. This is an obvious bug and needs addressing since it uses the original vanilla Chaos code.
- All Good.
- HeavyWeapon Mortar team should uproot/entrench using the same code as the regular HeavyWeapon team (then the AI can use that code to work properly)
- These guys have nothing new added or did Relic cover everything except the Pylon? ;)
- All Good.
- Command Squad reinforcing leaders is bugged. The 4 Leader addons cannot properly be built in any sequence except -> you need to build a Sargeant, then Bearer, Apothacary, then Champion in that order to access all the 4 leaders properly. Can you code it so its more like the IG Command squad?
- Command Squad can use its frag grenade ability 4 times without the ability recharging.
- Assault Terminators cannot upgrade to Cyclones (but thats ok as the regular Termies should only have it in my opinion).
- Veterans! If I build one squad of Veterans I can build its Sargent. If I build a second Vet Squad while the 1st Vet Squad has its Sargent built, the Sargent option for this second Vet squad is greyed out, why?
- LandSpeeder Tornado has an ability (Flamer) which should just be a hardpoint upgrade. I know we chatted about this on MSN but I continue to NOT see the logic in making this an ability rather than a simple hardpoint?
- All Good.
- How do you get a full 12 Heavy Support? I can never even though it shows a maximum of 12. I always seem to get to have a max available of 9/12 but never 12/12. Bug?
- Code cleanup: See too many cross references in the code (ie. Ork research is using the vanilla ones but again should be using its own from your TTRU mod). Can you please simply use your own research rgds in your own \TTRU folders and not just inherit them from vanilla DC? It just looks cleaner and keeps things with your mod.
- Code cleanup: there are some reference names with caps in them like the Ork battlefortress_TTRU. Please.. NO CAPS in filenames anywhere!! This can cause major crash problems in the future.
- The following vehicles get stuck too often and need their bounding boxes reduced (these are shown from the top being the most critical to fix to the last being the least):
1 - Orks -- Battlefortress and Squiggoth
2 - Eldar -- Scorpion Mark2 Heavy Tank
3 - SM -- LR and LR Helios
4 - IG -- Baneblade and ShadowSword
5 - CSM -- LR
So #1 to #3 have the WORST bounding problems and need addressing!!
- SKINBATCHING ERROR!
|SKINBATCHING -- Maximum unit shader VB size exceeded. Current size: 11616, requested addition: 702, max size: 12288. Please reduce the poly count.|
Lock of skin batcher failed. This is a sad day for skin batchers everywhere.
Here are the factions and items which cause it:
- CSM - Bikes! Built the Bike Sargent and error occurs. Sometimes the Bikes themselves cause the error!
- CSM - Predator! Build the Predator causes the error!
- Orks - Battlefortress! Build it, errors abound!
- Orks - Squiggoth! Build it, then immediately build its Ork Kannon upgrade, yep, the Skinbatching error occurs.
- SM - Bikes! Build it then reinforce it with either both side-cars and the error happens. So either sidecar types cause the error!
Zany Reaper - May 28, 2007 08:09 PM (GMT)
replies to Chaos:
Khorne terminators - Ah fack, I guess the generator requirement screwed things up even more then. I'll just replace that with Chaos projectiles research requirement instead.
However, wouldn't it be far more suitable if I just removed the multimelta & assault cannon options from Khorne Terminators altogether? They really shouldn't have them (they're mistakes).
Chaos Marine infiltration - I fiddled around with it & still no luck in working it :(
I have one last trick to try on these guys however, this time involving more modifiers & such that I can't be asked to explain. If this doesn't work, then I guess I'll have to remove the ability, for I'm not allowing Chaos marines to infiltrate whilst shooting, knowing how bloody overpowered that'd be.
Bloodthirster issue - I'm completely stumped about this one & don't know how to fix it
I Must do more testing then.
Replies to Imperial Guard:
I'm currently working on putting HW teams into squads & being able to entrench without crashing, just like how broadsides work.
In addition however, I'm also trying to enable squad upgrades with them too, though I am doubtful as to whether this'll work without crashing the game. Good thing I can do that with abilities instead however (like with the land speeder tornadoes)!
As for the mortars, I'll probably shove them in some time later on for uniformity, though It won't be easy.
Replies to Necrons:
Fraid so, Relic did a real good job with the Necrons. The Only new stuff I've added are ressurectable Destroyer chassis, which float around sometimes (I have no idea why they do that).
Replies to Orks:
You haven't tested them enough against races with weaker shooting weapons then. Observe how they take almost no damage from boltguns. (I do not critisise you on this however)
That's due to a piece of code I forgot to remove waayyy back from the start of TTRU (& possibly even fatality). That's been fixed.
I'll catch up the other stuff you've posted later. Right now, it's time for some testing & other stuff.
thudo - May 28, 2007 08:18 PM (GMT)
-- Khorne Termies - Yes they should not have energy weapons as they are a low tech (axes and such) chaos chapter
-- Conjuring BT issue. No idea why this is a prob if you duplicated the vanilla CSM squads? Obviously the button is there since if you press that area of the UI the BT is created from a squad sarg. Sounds like a simple UI icon prob ;)
Ok.. otherwise all fine it seems.. look VERY forward to that next build and HOPEFULLY testers will report in. I want to hear battle/war stories against the newly build TTRU advanced AI. Took me 3+ weeks to get that thing optimized completely. Hard as sh*t but in the end was bloody fun watching the utter bedlam! :o
Zany Reaper - May 29, 2007 05:00 PM (GMT)
Chaos Khorne Terminators:
I've disabled their upgrades altogether. They really shouldn't have any upgrades, ESPECIALLY assault cannons which chaos have no access to whatsoever (though I find it odd how their listening post has one).
IG Heavy weapon teams:
It worked! These guys now come in squads, deploy as 3 & can have upgrades! I haven't fully tested them yet, but results are promising (at least they're more useful in squads now). They work in the same way as broadsides in that they start with 3 members. They're just less useful (though cheaper & quicker to build).
Replies for Space Marines:
As I said, I've removed the Async ability for the next version. They therefore shouldn't be able to use all frag grenades. I am however concerned as to whether this'll have a negative effect on other abilities within the command squad however...
Standard Bearer FX - Don't you find it annoying? I wanna replace it with something less painful to the eye, but I'm stumped for ideas. You got any recommendations as to what FX I might be able to replace it with that's readily obtainable?
As for their leader options, I'll look at that again & test it. I made new files for the Apothecary & veteran sergeant Command squad members so that their unique cap requirements shouldn't interfere with the non-command squad types. This of course means that There won't be a veteran sergeant bug, nor apothecary bug.
So Assault terminators apparently can have cyclone terminator upgrades! Well I've fixed that, cheers. (They don't have them in tabletop either, only regular terminators have access to cyclone missile launchers).
Ugh... The Land speeder tornado has the upgrade ability rather than a hardpoint thing so that each & every speeder in the squad can have both weapon types! If I did it as casual weapon upgrades, then each land speeder tornado may only have one weapon upgrade, either a heavy flamer or multimelta.
That of course, is not a legal weapon combo in the TT rules, & furthurmore you can't make a weapon activate another one (from my knowledge anyways).
Replies to Misc:
(more on this later).
thudo - May 29, 2007 05:36 PM (GMT)
- SM Command Squad Bearer FX.. Glowing Halo/Aura around affected units? Nothing to major unless you want so.
- Tornado Flamer Ability.. what happens if you limit the # of upgrades to 1? Then only one Tornado gets the Flamer as it does now? I would think so. Still.. I don't mind the way it is just looking at it code-wise. B) AI will oblige regardless.
Keep up the amazing work!
Zany Reaper - May 29, 2007 07:40 PM (GMT)
Banner FX: The glowing halo FX is already used by the apothecary. Any other ideas?
Replies to misc:
It displays max 12 at your end? For What race? It usually displays 12 for Necrons due to the fact that the player starts with 3 tomb spyders which sap on 3 heavy support cap units in total.
At my end however, it only shows a number (I think). It's possible however to get a Heavy support cap of 13 in the campaign, but I don't know why (If I knew how to, then I'd get rid of it).
I've got rid of all the main ALL CAPS names with ttru in their names, & replaced them with lower case equivalents. I still don't see the big deal however.
I've also slightly reduced the lua bounding box sizes for the vehicles you've listed, but only for the lua files (apart from the sim_vis lua files), not for anything else.
As for the Skin batching error, I need to see this for myself on my computer before I fix it, because I have detected no such problem. I have build the Chaos bike aspiring champion & yet I got no skin batching errors. It sounds like your computer seems to be picking these up more seriously.
Either that, or I'm not using full settings (though whether that has any effect I don't know).
thudo - May 30, 2007 02:52 PM (GMT)
|Banner FX: The glowing halo FX is already used by the apothecary. Any other ideas?|
Maybe super-exaggerate it then. I'm sure you can come up an "angelic aura" of sorts. :P
|It displays max 12 at your end? For What race? It usually displays 12 for Necrons due to the fact that the player starts with 3 tomb spyders which sap on 3 heavy support cap units in total.|
Hmm.. play a game with Necrons then another as a different faction and note the max H.Support you can get then note the # on the right of it. Does it say, 12? Sure does here. I've never seen 9/9 but always, say 9/12. It should look like 9/9 when you have a max H.Support unused and 0/9 when all H.Support is used up.
|I've got rid of all the main ALL CAPS names with ttru in their names, & replaced them with lower case equivalents. I still don't see the big deal however.|
Just good protocol thats all. Thank you.
|I've also slightly reduced the lua bounding box sizes for the vehicles you've listed, but only for the lua files (apart from the sim_vis lua files), not for anything else.|
Yes thats precisely where the fix was needed.. in the LUA under the scale section of the unit's ebps file:
|GameData["entity_blueprint_ext"]["scale_x"] = 0.500000|
GameData["entity_blueprint_ext"]["scale_y"] = 1.000000
GameData["entity_blueprint_ext"]["scale_z"] = 0.500000
| I have build the Chaos bike aspiring champion & yet I got no skin batching errors. It sounds like your computer seems to be picking these up more seriously.|
Hmmm.. no clue on this why you cannot reproduce. How about run your game with the -dev switch at startup AND turn teamcolours=1 on. Basically, turn EVERYTHING on (max details)! Also.. I have 8xAA and 8xAF running for my Nvidia video drivers. Perhaps I could drop the settings to see if thats it.
Zany Reaper - May 30, 2007 08:17 PM (GMT)
|Maybe super-exaggerate it then. I'm sure you can come up an "angelic aura" of sorts. |
I said readily availiable! Then again, what if I just made it a different colour instead, along with a little icon on top of the affected unit?
As for heavy support cap, are you saying that you've actually managed to get 12, or does it just display 12 as a maximum?
|Just good protocol thats all. Thank you.|
What does "good protocol" mean?
|Yes thats precisely where the fix was needed.. in the LUA under the scale section of the unit's ebps file:|
Yay for that!
As for my settings, I have both model detail & texture detail set at high (although the game still uses the medium-detail textures even when textures are set on high, I think, unless you use the full-res hack). I used to have AGP 8x activated, but then my computer started overheating & crashing frequently so it was disabled (I have the hottest room in the house DESPITE disabling the radiator & opening the windows) :(
thudo - May 31, 2007 03:35 PM (GMT)
|As for heavy support cap, are you saying that you've actually managed to get 12, or does it just display 12 as a maximum?|
It shows a maximum of 12 but I always have a max of 9 so should it not show "9 / 9 "?
|What does "good protocol" mean?|
Its "good practice" to NOT use caps in any files AND to keep item names like unit/building names with similar and distinguishable names like avoid using a filename like "ork_dakka" and instead using "ork_dakka_research" for researches. It keeps the code clean and allows quick identification of the item.
What that? Not the teamcolour thing in local.ini? I need to try and drop all my ingame gfx and video settings and then try to reproduce those errors.
Zany Reaper - May 31, 2007 07:58 PM (GMT)
Damn it, I forgot to look at the Heavy support cap thing properly. I can't remember what it said... Guess I'll have to inspect that again.
I don't know what the hack is called, but it can be downloaded on filefront. It's a slight adjustment to one of the ini files that activates full-resolution textures (at maximum settings, DOW halves the texture sizes ingame). The hack however can put a huge lag on the computer as the texture sizes are quadrupled.
thudo - June 1, 2007 04:32 AM (GMT)
|I don't know what the hack is called, but it can be downloaded on filefront. It's a slight adjustment to one of the ini files that activates full-resolution textures (at maximum settings, DOW halves the texture sizes ingame). The hack however can put a huge lag on the computer as the texture sizes are quadrupled.|
Holy crap I WANT THAT!!!!!!! I have a system currently that owns all!
Btw.. I think I know the hack.. Make a backup of your Local.ini file (in the root of your DC folder) then copy and paste the following all into your Local.ini:
screendevice=Dx9 : Hardware TnL
The main line that drastically increases textures and the general look of the game is this line:
Now play the game and see if the SkinBatching error occurs when you build those specific units mentioned!
Zany Reaper - June 2, 2007 04:43 PM (GMT)
Thud - I highly doubt that quadrupling the texture sizes would cause Skin-batching errors seeing as they're barely even the problem. They didn't for you, didn't they (when you had full-rez textures disabled).
Anyways, did the hack work?
If not, then it can be downloaded here:http://dawnofwar.filefront.com/file/High_R...n_Mod_v11;61162
Bear in mind though that all settings are increased to max, so you might wanna re-set your performance options in DOW before playing the game.
Either that, or see what's been changed...
thudo - June 2, 2007 05:14 PM (GMT)
I looked at the high res mod for DoW..
Its the Local.ini hack I am doing..
Essentially the HiRes Hack turns these down or off:
And turns this on:
Whereas mine were set as:
So Zany.. run my Local.ini I posted above but turn this to 1:
Now do you get the SkinBatching errors?
WackyModder - June 3, 2007 03:34 PM (GMT)
there still is stuff to be added to the necrons, believe it or not. the pylon, the deciever, the void dragon, the aeonic orb, the abbatoir. all the works! B)
thudo - June 3, 2007 04:24 PM (GMT)
Wow.. all those sound a little massively uber, no? I mean, the Necrons own now.. whats to stop anything with those new additions? :o :o
Zany Reaper - June 3, 2007 08:03 PM (GMT)
Except that those things, barring the Pylon will probably never be added to the Necrons for balance & gaming purposes.
I haven't tested the new local.ini file yet as I don't want my computer to lag whilst playing DOW. It already lags enough & certain points & I don't want it to do it anymore.
thudo - June 3, 2007 11:51 PM (GMT)
Oh brotha.. new computers are soooooooo cheap these days.. I can recommend a mid-to-high end system that WILL NOT break your bank but be VERY lastable compared to the crap like Dell or HP. I build my own systems for friends, family, and clients.
As for the Necron stuff.. yeaa the Pylon is meant to damage orbiting capital ships is it not? :o :o :o I know the rest but the Aeonic Orb, the Abbatoir I do not know about for the Necrons (goes to wikipedia!) :P Void Dragon... ahhhhhhhhhhhhh no x 10,000,000 ! If you created that thing in-game your system should shut down, format itself, grow legs, and quickly RUN out your door FOREVER! >:) :ph43r:
Edit: Just read up on both the Aeonic Orb and the Abbatoir. Esshh..
Abbatoir is meant for terraforming for the C'tan so we're talking HUGE in magnitude thus even in TT its massively rare to see if impossible to put on the table. ;)
Aeonic Orb is a skimmer device that holds a collapsed star the C'tan were able to contain and is primarily used to eliminate enemy Super Titans. That, in itself, makes me feel very VERY ill and will this immediately expell my internals in utter horror and thus die quite horribly in hell. :huh:
For at least some sembalence of sanity, the Pylon is an immobile WarEngine and used against Titans so at least there is hope for rational gameplay (curtails my hideous death.. for NOW!!!!!!!!!!).. <shutters> :(
Zany Reaper - June 4, 2007 08:12 PM (GMT)
Not only are you VERY unlikely to see those 2 Necron war machines in a standard game of 40K (although someone actually made a scale model verison of one!), but you won't see many of them in a typical Necron battle anyways.
If Necrons want to destroy big things, then they'll usually just use lots of Pylons I imagine, seeing as they have a decent range (for a Necron weapon) & pack a fair amount of power behind that crystal too.
If the Pylon is to be included in the mod, then Winterdyne will have to be chased for the model. He doesn't seem to be doing much at the moment.
thudo - June 4, 2007 08:19 PM (GMT)
There were 2 good textured models of the Pylon done. Should be easy to track down and easy enough to rig/animate. Fun part will be deciding the amazing weaponfx when it fires?!?! :o :o :o
WackyModder - June 4, 2007 09:08 PM (GMT)
thats precisely y i think we should ask moru to borrow empy and horus and the void dragon and every other god unit for each side he's doing when he gets it done. each side would have 1 god unit. i think that seems fair. SM wud have empy, Chaos would have horus, NEcrons wud have void dragon, etc... what do u think?
Zany Reaper - June 4, 2007 09:39 PM (GMT)
| There were 2 good textured models of the Pylon done.|
Were there!? I never saw them.
I am also NOT having any god units nor special characters in the mod. For one, they aren't in the TT game as they're too powerful, & it also violates the fluff heavily as well as TT rules.
WackyModder - June 5, 2007 08:55 PM (GMT)
no probs, zany. but still, even tho i can understand y u dont want god units, the least we can do is give them the deciever, cant we? i mean its PART of the necron army in Tabletop. it has a right to be there. yknow?
thudo - June 6, 2007 01:59 AM (GMT)
You also have your own and the older Necron team had one as well but their forums are disabled.
I would HIGHLY agree with WackyModder... the Deceiver is a *MUST* to include for the Necrons but what would he do on the battlefield that the DoW engine could handle?
* create phantom armies to fool the enemy?
* cause enemy armies to attack themselves
* cause the enemy's screen to go all screwy so the enemy player has problems playing the game (that would be funny actually)
* gives all Necrons and/or allied units a major attack bonus for a 5-7seconds
Otherwise.. yeaa the Pylon is nice and all but I doubt it would be hard to do. I think you should do the Deceiver AND Pylon..
Pylon would be built like a regular building, limit = 1, VERY fragile, can fire anywhere on the map, launches this massive green pulsar at target area draining all life from it for 3-5seconds. Has massive cooldown (maybe the longest ever in DoW history).
Zany Reaper - June 6, 2007 08:11 PM (GMT)
Well concerning Necrons anyhow, the Pylon is priority. I've PMd Winterdyne to ask him on the progress with his Pylon, but he hasn't bothered to reply yet.
At worst, I'll have to continue Alan's work myself...
WackyModder - June 7, 2007 01:14 AM (GMT)
i totally agree with thudmeizer, zany. those abilities can happen. i mean, for turning enemy armies against each other ,can u just convert enemy squads onto your side? and the major attack bonus is mandatory for the deciever, as for the nightbringer too, but anyway. the phantom armies i would say is like the etherial's hologram ability, except maybe a different texture, but its up to u.
Zany Reaper - June 7, 2007 09:50 AM (GMT)
Well The Deceiver would also be extremely hard & annoying to animate, which is another reason why it's not top on my priority list.
The Pylon however doesn't move, which makes animating it a little easier :)
So I don't know when the Pylon will be worked on, but Right now, the Mortar for IG is first, & then probably some other thing, & then I'm out of ideas (which might mean Pylon time).
thudo - June 7, 2007 02:57 PM (GMT)
Hmm.. How would the Deceiver be anything more challenging than stuff you've done already? He would just hover (no walking), with swirling thick clouds around him kinda similar to the NightBringer but thicker, he must point at least once in his animations (TT mini).. I'm sure it can be done without a major pain.
As for the Pylon.. yep.. that would insanely rock if it were done!
Zany Reaper - June 7, 2007 07:42 PM (GMT)
I have an old model (3ds MAX) of the Pylon model Alan Mace was working on. I don't know how much he's worked on it (he hasn't contacted me in about 8 months now), but I'm abandoning hope in him bothering to fix it.
I'll wait a little longer for Winterdyne too.
As for the old model if the pylon, if nothing happens in the next few weeks with Winterdyne's work, then I can modify Alan's existing model (he left a few details out) to make it more like the FW model that I own.
WackyModder - June 7, 2007 08:46 PM (GMT)
the deciever wud just be another uberunit for the necrons, like the nightbringer. the necrons are kinda weak compared to the other sides, they need a beefup bigtime. the deciever is a must have for the necrons, thud.
thudo - June 8, 2007 01:58 AM (GMT)
hehe.. yer perhaps the only person I know who consider the Necrons weak. Esshh.. Like they need anything more in Tier4? ;) But the Deceiver is certainly a MUST DO unit. *VERY* MUST as then it pretty much completes em. Other than the Pylon, the Deceiver is the final unit.
Zany Reaper - June 8, 2007 06:50 PM (GMT)
Necrons IMO are only weak in T4 in TTRU, otherwise they fare fairly well against other races (although their gauss flayers have a short range).
Anyways, Pylon 1st necron-wise.
WackyModder - June 8, 2007 08:19 PM (GMT)
of course, zany. got any updates on the pylon's model?
Zany Reaper - June 9, 2007 11:44 AM (GMT)
Of course I haven't! I'm not working on it yet (gimme a few weeks to start, I have other things to take care of 1st).
WackyModder - June 9, 2007 01:13 PM (GMT)
10,4. but jus out of curiosity, r the necrons the ONLY things that r bein modded in this next version that have new units?
Zany Reaper - June 9, 2007 03:18 PM (GMT)
Huh? I don't know.
DO take into account though that Terminators will have Chainfists for the next version, as in that they're already ingame. Haven't you seen the screenshots?
WackyModder - June 10, 2007 03:38 PM (GMT)
Space Marine terminators have chainfists? since when? i dont remember that in tabletop. i only recall CHAOS terminators having that kinda weapon. Space Marine Assault Terminators however should have randomized weapons of thunderhammers w/ armshields and lightning claws.
Zany Reaper - June 10, 2007 05:14 PM (GMT)
Space marine Terminators may have Chainfists as upgrades. They cost 5 points (from the old codex anyways). You can still get them though as they can be found on the new models.
To be honest, they're not very useful in TT however, so don't expect them to be great in TTRU either.
Anyways, I've started to animate the Mortar upgrade now. I'll probably post some renders of the model in the relic thread.
thudo - June 10, 2007 05:21 PM (GMT)
I've started to animate the Mortar upgrade now. [QUOTE]Well done Zany! This is the Guard's Mortar team right? Yer gonna give em the same Entrench/Uproot code as the HWTs right? Would make sense. They'll just entrench and become shell-lobbing mass infantry killers? :lol:
Also.. whats your timeline for new 3d content for TTRU? Obviously, Termie Chainfists, IG Mortar Teams, Necron Pylon (and someday the Deceiver).. anything else?
Zany Reaper - June 10, 2007 09:17 PM (GMT)
Well as you know, the Terminator chainfist has been done as you've seen the screenshots.
The mortar team is half-done, but one animation is being very bitchy at the moment...
As for the Pylon, nothing's happened to it yet. I am still waiting for Winterdyne to reply, but if he doesn't soon, then I'll start work on the Pylon I have.
Also, Xamon has returned!
Assuming he can still work for us, he'll hopefully be putting lascannons & heavy bolters onto the Defiler.
thudo - June 11, 2007 12:51 AM (GMT)
Trying to contact WD on MSN.. hang tight.. I doubt the Pylon will take long to do..
The part that might, the massive blast it emits when firing AND the unfortunate sots @ ground zero when the explosion occurs. :o :o :o