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 Debunking Fdr Debunking, Common Arguments Addressed
johndoeX
Posted: Jun 6 2007, 05:11 AM


LGA Patriot
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Group: Admin
Posts: 4,430
Member No.: 1
Joined: 13-August 06



In the spirit of DRG's latest book "Debunking 9/11 Debunking", i thought i would put together an article for those to help out with the most common so-called "Debunks" of our work.


QUOTE

1. Claim - There are No pilots at pilotsfor911truth.org

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

All above names who are pilots certified by the FAA can be cross referenced here...
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/

Pilots Question 9/11 (photos here)
http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html




2. Claim - The FDR is missing 2-6 seconds of data

FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=7152

Radar Altitude Confirms too high
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=4801

NTSB plots aircraft 1 second away from pentagon wall.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...1960/093744.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...0/jimritter.jpg

American 77 Flight Recorder Position Data - DME Video
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...showtopic=10751

Lat/Long/DME
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...dpost&p=8305238



3. Claim - There is altimeter lag in the animation and csv file due to flying outside the aircraft envelope.

Airdata Calibration and Measurement
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...p?showtopic=103

FDR Vertical Speed - Altimeter lag issues Addressed
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...hp?showtopic=73

Radar Altitude Confirms too High
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=4801

Reserved - more info forthcoming



4. Claim - The Information that P4T has analyzed may not be from the NTSB (P4T may have fabricated the information and claims it came from the NTSB)

csv file download and cover letters provided by Undertow
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...hp?showtopic=64

Raw data decode provided by Undertow
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=4574

Animation cover letters/envelope provided by Snowgrouch
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...p?showtopic=375

Animation cover letters provided by Mick Harrison
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=6205

Reserved - More forthcoming

Animation provided by Third party on google video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=65...=AA77+Animation

George Washington University NTSB Data
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

NTSB FOIA Website
http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm

NTSB FOIA Contact - Melba D. Moye
202-314-6000

NTSB FOIA Request form -
http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.asp



5. Claim - The csv file and animation show a heading along the official flight path.

csv file heading does not line up perfectly with physical damage
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...gonASpaint1.jpg

American 77 Flight Path in 3D
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=8166

csv file was altered to show southern approach
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=5083

Animation Alterations, Citgo Gas Station Video, witnesses
http://911files.info/blog/?cat=8

ThePentaCon
http://thepentacon.com



6. Claim - Pilots For 9/11 Truth has not provided all the data

We have provided all data which pertains to all published research and analysis that is not proprietary in nature. All information/data can be found on links above. The only information we cannot and do not provide is a proprietary Data Frame Layout which does not change our analysis in any way. Undertow can expand on this more when he sees this post.




7. Claim - Cover Letter Dated March 22, 2007 says Animation not "Official" that its a "working copy"

Animation cover letter provided by Mick Harrison
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=6205

Animation isnt the only information we have. We also have a Raw file and csv file (see above).

However, the cover letter states the animation "was not used for official purpose" which means it was never used in an investigation. It is an official copy since it was officially provided through the Freedom Of Information Act and from the NTSB. The NTSB notes in the cover letter that they want everything as accurate as possible when providing information through the FOIA, however they note one error which was made to the clock annotation. They do not account for any other possible errors regarding the animation in this cover letter.

Given the fact that all we really need is the last data point - we offer the following article.
FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=7152

8. Claim -
The Flight Data Recorder was found in the Pentagon. How can it be too high?


http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=7322

Can the Govt Get Their Story Straight? - Location of FDR
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html




These are some of the most common arguments when discussing Pilots For 9/11 Truth analysis regarding the information provided by the NTSB. In order to copy and paste whole links (you will get broken links from a direct copy/paste), please click quote (quote this post), copy and paste the whole quote box below to the site you wish to reply. I will add common arguments as they arise. Hope this is helpful.
Top
Cary
Posted: Jun 6 2007, 09:11 AM


Ragin Cajun
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Group: Admin
Posts: 3,558
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Good one Rob.
Top
Carl Bank
Posted: Jun 6 2007, 10:19 AM


Class Clown
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Group: Global Mod
Posts: 2,056
Member No.: 121
Joined: 21-October 06



Rob, this is what I call accurate.

I'm glad you don't work for the german IRS and check
my accountings ...

not my real name, btw: Carl tongue.gif
Top
painter
Posted: Jun 6 2007, 10:39 AM


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Group: Admin
Posts: 3,466
Member No.: 16
Joined: 25-August 06



For copy and paste:

CODE

Claim - There are No pilots at pilotsfor911truth.org

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

All above names who are pilots certified by the FAA can be cross referenced here...
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/



Claim - The FDR is missing 2-6 seconds of data

FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=7152

Radar Altitude Confirms too high
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=4801


Claim - There is altimeter lag in the animation and csv file due to flying outside the aircraft envelope.

Airdata Calibration and Measurement
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=103

FDR Vertical Speed - Altimeter lag issues Addressed
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=73

Radar Altitude Confirms too High
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=4801

Reserved - more info forthcoming



Claim - The Information that P4T has analyzed may not be from the NTSB (P4T may have fabricated the information and claims it came from the NTSB)

csv file download and cover letters provided by Undertow
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=64

Raw data decode provided by Undertow
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=4574

Animation cover letters/envelope provided by Snowgrouch
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=375

Animation cover letters provided by Mick Harrison
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=6205

Reserved - More forthcoming

Animation provided by Third party on google video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6529691284366443405&q=AA77+Animation

George Washington University NTSB Data
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

NTSB FOIA Website
http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm

NTSB FOIA Contact - Melba D. Moye
202-314-6000

NTSB FOIA Request form -
http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.asp



Claim - The csv file and animation show a heading along the official flight path.

csv file heading does not line up perfectly with physical damage
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/pentagonASpaint1.jpg

csv file was altered to show southern approach
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=5083

Animation Alterations, Citgo Gas Station Video, witnesses
http://911files.info/blog/?cat=8

ThePentaCon
http://thepentacon.com


Claim - Pilots For 9/11 Truth has not provided all the data

We have provided all data which pertains to all published research and analysis that is not proprietary in nature. All information/data can be found on links above. The only information we cannot and do not provide is a proprietary Data Frame Layout which does not change our analysis in any way. Undertow can expand on this more when he sees this post.




Claim - Cover Letter Dated March 22, 2007 says Animation not "Official" that its a "working copy"
Animation cover letter provided by Mick Harrison
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=6205

Animation isnt the only information we have. We also have a Raw file and csv file (see above).

However, the cover letter states the animation "was not used for official purpose" which means it was never used in an investigation. It is an official copy since it was officially provided through the Freedom Of Information Act and from the NTSB. The NTSB notes in the cover letter that they want everything as accurate as possible when providing information through the FOIA, however they note one error which was made to the clock annotation. They do not account for any other possible errors regarding the animation in this cover letter.

Given the fact that all we really need is the last data point - we offer the following article.

FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=7152


Claim -
The Flight Data Recorder was found in the Pentagon. How can it be too high?
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Truth/index.php?showtopic=7322

Top
Drakey
Posted: Jun 8 2007, 09:51 AM


Active Poster


Group: Valued Member
Posts: 126
Member No.: 155
Joined: 24-October 06



awesome post thumbsup.gif

get this submitted to 911blogger/prison planet cheers.gif
Top
johndoeX
Posted: Jun 8 2007, 02:31 PM


LGA Patriot
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Group: Admin
Posts: 4,430
Member No.: 1
Joined: 13-August 06



http://www.911blogger.com/node/9193


It was also sent to Alex.
Top
johndoeX
Posted: Jun 23 2007, 03:32 AM


LGA Patriot
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Group: Admin
Posts: 4,430
Member No.: 1
Joined: 13-August 06



updated with "FDR found in Pentagon" claim.

Top
johndoeX
Posted: Jul 11 2007, 12:44 AM


LGA Patriot
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Group: Admin
Posts: 4,430
Member No.: 1
Joined: 13-August 06



Updated "FDR is missing 2-6 seconds" claim with...

QUOTE
NTSB plots aircraft 1 second away from pentagon wall.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...1960/093744.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...0/jimritter.jpg
Top
johndoeX
Posted: Sep 5 2007, 01:14 AM


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Group: Admin
Posts: 4,430
Member No.: 1
Joined: 13-August 06



OP Edited to add:

Amrican 77 Flight Path In 3D
http://z9.invisionfree.com/Pilots_For_Trut...?showtopic=8166
Top
johndoeX
Posted: Feb 16 2008, 02:02 AM


LGA Patriot
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Group: Admin
Posts: 4,430
Member No.: 1
Joined: 13-August 06



OP edited to add American 77 Flight Recorder Position Data and Lat/Long/DME thread.

Also... numbered claims for easier reference.
Top
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