Pilots For Truth -> Witness List Broken Down

Witness List Broken Down, No such thing as 104 "impact" witnesses

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Aldo Marquis CIT	Posted: Jan 21 2008, 05:56 PM
Citizen Investigator Group: Valued Member Posts: 552 Member No.: 10 Joined: 16-August 06	Hello all, Here is a great resource for you all to use. It consists of a breakdown of all witnesses in relation to what they said versus what they actually saw or could have seen. I based this analysis on what was actually printed. Without direct confirmation and srutinizing of witness claims and POV (point of view) locations, they are merely static words floating around left to imply an impact. Seeing plane + smoke/fireball DOES NOT equal actually witnessing an impact. Seeing/descrbing a plane + reporters deduction/sensationalizing about witness account DOES NOT equal actually witnessing an impact. Speaking with witnesses and clarifying the details of their account is the ONLY way to get answers. Some witnesses are genuine and some are not. Some are real people with real lives who were confused and convinced by the attacks in New York while some are deep cover opertives or assets implicitly planting bogus information to make us chase our tails or delicately dancing between ambigous statements. Some merely deduced an impact while some either arrived after the event or simply said they were there and outright lied about an impact. The fact that they "saw a plane versus a missile" is what their account was originally touted for by skeptics but when accepted that there was a plane and scrutinized against the north side flight path and the fact that the local topography does not allow a complete view of the event, most of the accounts do not hold water when analyzed. I am open to debate on this matter and tried to remain as fair and accurate as I possibly could. If I missed anyone, please let me know. If you disagree with any of this witness designations, then please let me know. However, you should be warned that I will ask you for evidence or logic to support your argument ie pictures and other supporting factors. Only saw plane (possibly from far away location), could not see pentagon, light poles or impact, either deduced or are lying OR do not directly mention or CONFIRM seeing an impact: Susan Carroll (on metro platform at Reagan National) Allen Cleveland (on subway metro train at Reagan National) Meseidy Rodriguez (metro platform at Reagan National) Steve Snaman (Ft McNair) Michael Tinyk (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT US Patent and Trademark office in Crystal City) Greta van Susteren (on the roof of a parking structure at National Airport) Clyde A. Vaughn, Army Brig. Gen. (Saw the plane loitering over Georgetown, DC, ) Don Chauncey (small commuer plane) Henry Ticknor (Rt 50, only saw plane for a moment-mad that people misrepresent) Michael James -POV confirmed (Columbia Pike curve, trees blocked view) Isabel James -POV confirmed (Columbia Pike curve, trees blocked view) Mark Eastman D.S. Khavkin (saw small commerical craft from back on Columbia Pike in highrise) Allan Wallace (ran when plane came in, admits DID NOT see impact) Mark Skipper (ran when plane came in, admits DID NOT see impact) Steve Eiden (out on 395 loop) Capt Steve McCoy (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT at 395 and Glebe Rd) Andrea Kaiser (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT at 395 and Glebe Rd) Ann Krug (Hoffman-Boston Elementary) Mary Lyman Oscar Martinez (saw plane, claims he only heard it hit, no confirmation to seeing) Kirk Milburn (deceased, died in Motorcycle accident-CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT, could not see impact or light poles) Linda Plaisted Alfred S. Regnery (watched it disappear behind bridges and concrete barriers) Joseph Royster Darb Ryan, Vice Admiral Elizabeth Smiley Steve Snaman Dewey Snavely, Sgt. Levi Stephens Greta van Susteren Phillip Sheuerman (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT, on 395, only saw plane for brief moment, did not see impact) Phillip Thompson (does not mention seeing impact, only fireball) Thomas J. Trapasso (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT1400 S. Barton, dubious conflicting witness and can't see Pentagon from location) Richard Benedetto (claims he did not see impact from Rt 27) Terry Morin (up at Navy Annex) James Ryan (And you saw it hit the Pentagon? No, at that point it went down because I was approaching a hill.) Darb Ryan (quote only says "when out of the corner of my eye I saw the airplane" , the writer for Aviation Week adds 'a split second before it struck'.) Mickey Bell (did not know what had happened) Don Scott (did not and could not see pentagon or impact, confirmed by CIT) Ralph Banton Michael DiPaula ("sounded like missile", reporter adds detail about plane roaring into view, not in position to make determination on impact) Lon Rains ("sounded like a missile") John Thurman,Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff Daniel McAdams (only heard) Dennis Smith (no direct confirmation of impact, may actually support flyover) Dawn Vignola (SPOKE TO CIT IN PERSON, claimed the plane was white seemed, could not debunk north side) David Battle Mike Gerson Cheryl Hammond (saw the big American Airlines plane and started running) Dan Creed (up on Columbia Pike, no view of Pentagon or impact) James Keglovich (no indication or CONFIRMATION that he actually saw the impact) Aydan Kizildrgli (no indication or CONFIRMATION,writers words, his quotes do not allude to ACTUALLY seeing the impact) Lincoln Liebner (at entrance to building in south parking lot, cannot see impact from there.-also claims plane hit helicopter which it did not) Claims they "Saw" impact of "plane"/large airliner-were in a position to possibly confirm one: 1. Deb Anlauf (CONTACTED by CIT, would not return call) 2. Donald Bouchoux (military consultant. CONTACTED by CIT, spoke with and left message with son, would not return call) 3. Mike Walter (had dinner with CIT) 4. Sean Boger (CONFIRMED the north side, impact deduced we believe) 5. Pam Bradley (unconfirmed account/witness) 6. Hugh "Tim" Timmerman (Dawn Vignola's roomate, unavailable for comment) 7. James R. Cissell 8. Daryl Donley 9. Bobby Eberle (came forward well after the event, Jeff Gannon's boss) 10. Penny Elgas 11. Mary Ann Owens 12. Scott Perry 13. Frank Probst (CONTACTED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) 14Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt. (claims plane lowered landing gear and hit light poles with landing gear) 15. G. T. Stanley (unconfirmed name/witness) 16. Steve Storti 17. Carla Thompson (unconfirmed name/witness) 18. Dave Winslow, AP Radio reporter (CONTACTED by CIT, did not return call) 19. Terrance Kean (Unreachable) 20. Dave Marra (dubious, questionable witness-claims plane cartwheeled into building) 21. Mark Petitt (VERY dubious account) 22. Aziz El Hallou (Debunked lying witness, proven to be at Navy Annex) 223. Robert A Leonard(driving northbound in the HOV lanes on I-395; Pentagon is on the left. The plane vanished, absorbed by the building, and there was a slight pause. Then a huge fireball rose into the sky.") 24. Mitch Mitchell, Ret. Army Col., CBS news correspondent (account is problematic) 25. Mike Dobbs (according to writer, not confirmed, not his own words) 26. Joe Harrington (seems like it made impact before Wedge-in South Parking lot) 27. Rick Renzi (corrupt congressman, listed as law student, has plane "dive bombing", very peculiar account) "Saw" a plane & impact from far away, but DID NOT see a second plane/jet shadowing/chasing and veering away as the impact happened: 28. Steve Anderson, USA Today Editor (saw impact from USA Today building) 29.Don Wright (a commuter plane, two-engined ) 30.Don Chauncey (small commuter plane) Steve Gerard (saw small corporate jet with no markings) (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) 31. Lesley Kelly, Cmdr. U.S. Navy (Ret.) (near impossible to see the plane approach from DC) 32. James Robbins (a national-security analyst & NRO contributor for National Review, William F Buckley (CIA) publication saw silver flash, "diving in an unrecoverable angle") Ken Ford (prop plane flying up river from National) 33.Christopher Munsey, Navy Times reporter (30 TOTAL WHO COULD HAVE SEEN OR CLAIM TO HAVE SEEN IMPACT) Claims plane an American Airlines: Richard Benedetto James R. Cissell Dennis Clem Mike Dobbs, Marine Cmdr. Penny Elgas Cheryl Hammond Joe Harrington William Lagasse (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT) Lincoln Leibner, Army Major Elaine McCusker Mitch Mitchell, Ret. Army Col. CBS news correspondent Terry Morin, Former USMC aviator (CONTACTED by CIT, would not return phone calls) Christopher Munsey, Navy Times reporter Vin Narayanan (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) John O'Keefe (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Steve Riskus Mike Walter Joel Sucherman (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Frank Probst (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) James Ryan Steve Storti Tim Timmerman Michael Tinyk (dark orange and blue) (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED by CIT) Alan Wallace (white airplane with orange and blue trim) Ian Wyatt Afework Hagos (according to writer)(CONTACT ATTEMPTED by CIT) (25 total) Saw a "silver plane": Allen Cleveland Albert Hemphill James Mosely (silver flash?) Steve Patterson James S. Robbins Madelyn Zackem (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Lt. Col O'Brien(CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by PFT/CIT) (7 total) Saw "the/a plane", not identified as AA: Steve Anderson Deb Anlauf Sean Boger (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Donald Bouchoux Pam Bradley Mark Bright Omar Campo Susan Carroll James R. Cissell Dan Creed Daryl Donley Bob Dubill Bobby Eberle Steve Eiden Bruce Elliott, Colonel Kim Flyler Kat Gaines Fred Gaskins Steven Gerard Afework Hagos Eugenio Hernandez Fred Hey Michael James Andrea Kaiser Terrance Kean James Keglovich Lesley Kelly, Cmdr. U.S. Navy (Ret.) Aydan Kizildrgli Ann Krug Robert A. Leonard Mary Lyman David Marra Oscar Martinez Stephen McGraw (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) William Middleton Sr. Kirk Milburn Mary Ann Owens Zinovy Pak Scott Perry Christine Peterson Linda Plaisted Alfred S. Regnery Rick Renzi Meseidy Rodriguez Joseph Royster Darb Ryan, Vice Admiral Don Scott (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt. Elizabeth Smiley Steve Snaman Dewey Snavely, Sgt. G. T. Stanley Levi Stephens Greta van Susteren Shari Taylor Carla Thompson Phillip Thompson Thomas J. Trapasso (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Rodney Washington Only heard plane: Ralph Banton Michael DiPaula ("sounded like missile", reporter adds detail about wing) Lon Rains ("sounded like a missile") John Thurman,Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff Daniel McAdams Heard impact/explosions: Lisa Burgess Michael DiPaula John Thurman, Army Major who works in the Office of the Deputy Chief of Staff Saw something else that does NOT support official story: Stuart Artman (plane over/near Wash. monument) Joseph Candelario (plane flying towards White House, sharp turn to Pentagon) Kim Dent(shadow of plane from Navy Annex) Ken Ford (prop plane flying up river from National) Kat Gaines (plane striking telephone poles from 110) Steve Gerard (saw small corporate jet with no markings) (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Joe Hurst ( saw it go overhead, Oval Room restaurant at Lafayette Square? DC) Lesley Kelly, Cmdr.U.S. Navy(Ret.)(saw it descend from office in downtown DC) D.S. Khavkin (saw small commerical craft) Elaine McCusker (saw AA over 14th street bridge) Steve Patterson (small silver 8-12 passenger commuter plane) Dennis Smith (tail section before impact from Pentagon Courtyard) Clyde A. Vaughn, Army Brig. Gen. (Saw the plane loitering over Georgetown, DC, Don Wright (a commuter plane, two-engined-strange behavior when questioned about direction ) Omar Campo (saw white with blue on the bottom plane, United plane) Michael Kelly (plane flying over him while he is on the 14th st bridge, debris falling on the 14th st bridge/395, sounded like small plane) Harry Gold (saw plane "off the registered course over the Potomac" and believes it made a dive over Rosslyn) Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt. (unconfirmed account-claims landing gear was down and hit light pole) Sgt. Chadwick Brooks CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT-saw champagne off white plane on north side of Citgo, admits he could have been fooled and he stands by where he saw the plane) Levi Stephens (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CIT-saw plane on north side of Citgo, claims did not look like and was not an American Airlines aircraft) Robert Turcios (CONTACTED/CONFIRMED/INTERVIEWED by CITsaw plane on north side of Citgo, claims did not look like and was not an American Airlines aircraft) Could see details of plane ie passengers: Daryl Donley Steve Eiden James R. Cissell Kim Flyler Claims Saw it clip light pole: Wanda Ramey (unconfirmed account) Noel Sepulveda, Navy Master Sgt. (unconfirmed account-claims landing gear was down and hit light pole) Lloyd England (CONTACTED/INTERVIEWED by CIT) Afework Hagos (unconfrimed account-deduced? Lying?) Mike Walter (has since changed story) Listed or mistaken as witnesses but actually nowhere near the pentagon at the time of the attack nor did they see anything Don Fortunato Lee Evey Tom Hovis Jack Singleton Saw plane on north side of Citgo or headed towards north side of Citgo Sgt William Lagasse Sgt Chadwick Brooks Robert Turcios Levi Stephens Sean Boger Ed Paik Amy Hart (according to Steve Ross) This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT on Feb 9 2008, 01:50 PM

Aldo Marquis CIT

Posted: Jan 21 2008, 05:57 PM

Citizen Investigator

Group: Valued Member
Posts: 552
Member No.: 10
Joined: 16-August 06

Remember, the second plane contained 3 types of witnesses.

1. Those who were genuine who saw a C-130 a minute or more after the attack. I believe Scott Cook and Phillip Thompson are those types of witnesses.
2. Witnesses who may have seen the flyover and just refer to it as a second plane.
3. Complicit operatives who were trying to ambiguously blend and vaguely imply that the there was a second plane/jet shadowing/chasing close behind on the same flight path veering away from or was over or near the pentagon at the time of the impact/explosion/fireball. The wording is key and is actually even accomplished through the author of the articles. When pressed to give details they back off a bit and merely throw O'brien under the bus by making it seem as if he controlled the plane up until the alleged impact while conspiracy theorists lap it up and take the bait, effectively missing the real problems with their account. They want everyone to look like Fetzer did when he was asked about the C-130's role in the BBC 9/11 documentary, 9/11 Conspiracy Files. It is a possibility that there was an effort to lengthen the amount of time after the event that the plane arrived at, ie shadow, 3-5 seconds after, 30 seconds, less than a minute.

Second plane witnesses in chronological order:

QUOTE

9/12/01 Albert Hemphill:

The only large fixed wing aircraft to appear was a gray C-130, which appeared to be a Navy electronic warfare aircraft, he seemed to survey the area and depart in on a westerly heading.

QUOTE

Sep 12, 2001, John O�Keefe,:

John O�Keefe is driving a car when he sees the Pentagon crash. �The first thing I did was pull over onto the shoulder, and when I got out of the car I saw another plane flying over my head.� Then the plane�it looked like a C-130 cargo plane�started turning away from the Pentagon, it did a complete turnaround.� [New York Law Journal, 9/12/2001]

QUOTE

Sep 13, 2001, Joel Sucherman, USA Today:

USA Today Editor Joel Sucherman sees a second plane but gives few details. [eWeek, 9/13/2001]

Off to the west, Sucherman saw another plane climb steeply and make a sharp turn. "I thought, 'Is this thing coming around to make a second attack? If there is another explosion, we're toast.'"

[...]

"Within a minute (he says clarifies within 3-5 seconds) another plane started veering up and to the side. At that
point it wasn't clear if that plane was trying to manouver out of the air
space or if that plane was coming round for another hit. (Audio)"

http://play.rbn.com/?url=usat/usat/g2deman...1sucherman.ra&v

QUOTE

Sep 14, 2001, TERRY SCANLON Daily Press

"Her brother, Wheelhouse, of Virginia Beach , spotted the planes first. The second plane looked similar to a C- 130 transport plane, he said. He believes it flew directly above the American Airlines jet, as if to prevent two planes from appearing on radar while at the same time guiding the jet toward the Pentagon.
As the hijacked jet started its descent, "it's like it stepped on its gas pedal," Wheelhouse said. "As soon as he did that, the second plane banked off to the west."
Wheelhouse's account of a second plane is unlike everything else that has been reported about the attack. Some initial reports on television said a second airliner might be headed for the Pentagon, but authorities later dismissed that. A Norfolk-based FBI agent interviewed Wheelhouse Wednesday evening.
A possible explanation for the second plane could be a plane landing at nearby Ronald Reagan National Airport . The Pentagon is between the cemetery and the airport. But Wheelhouse insists he was not confused by other air traffic.
After the attack on the Pentagon, reporters in Washington saw Air Force planes patrolling the skies over the capital.
Wheelhouse said it's possible the second plane was a military plane, but the military has not said it had a plane shadowing the hijacked jet." �

QUOTE

9/15/2001

Brian Kennedy, press secretary for a congressman, and others also see a second plane. [Sacramento Bee, 9/15/2001]

QUOTE

Sep 15, 2001, TERRY SCANLON Daily Press

Another Hampton Roads native says she saw a second plane in the air over the Pentagon as a hijacked jet plunged into the five-sided military fortress Tuesday.

Kelly Knowles, a First Colonial High School alumnus who now lives in an apartment a few miles from the Pentagon, said some sort of plane followed the doomed American Airlines jet toward the Pentagon, then veered away after the explosion.

"Thank God somebody else saw that. There was most definitely a second plane," Knowles said. "It's so frustrating because nobody knows about the second plane, or if they do they're hiding it for some reason."

"FBI spokesmen say they have not heard about it, although both Knowles and Keith Wheelhouse, the Virginia Beach man, were interviewed by FBI agents. A Pentagon official said late Friday no other plane was flying with the jetliner. But he said it was possible a military plane was in the area at the time of the attack.

At the same time, Wheelhouse and his sister, Pam Young, who lives in Surry, were preparing to leave a funeral at Arlington National Cemetery, which is less than a mile from the Pentagon, when they watched the jet approach and slam into the Pentagon. Both of them, as well as at least one other person at the funeral, insist that there was another plane flying near the hijacked jet.
Wheelhouse said the second plane looked like it may have been a C- 130 transport plane, but the other three witnesses say they're not sure what the plane looked like." - Daily Press/Newport News (09/15/01)

QUOTE

Sep 17, 2001 Vin Narayanan , USA Today

�I hopped out of my car after the jet exploded, nearly oblivious to a second jet hovering in the skies�

QUOTE

Oct 28th, 2001 Allen Cleveland:

Soon after the crash(Within 30 seconds of the crash) I witnessed a military cargo plane(Possibly a C130) fly over the crash site and circle the mushroom cloud. My brother inlaw also witnessed the same plane following the jet while he was on the HOV lanes in Springfield . He said that he saw a jetliner flying low over the tree tops near Seminary RD in Springfield , VA. and soon afterwards a military plane was seen flying right behind it.

QUOTE

December 20, 2001:

An unnamed worker at Arlington National Cemetery �said a mysterious second plane was circling the area when the first one attacked the Pentagon.� [Pittsburgh Post-Gazette, 12/20/2001]

QUOTE

9/11/02 Phillip Thompson:

Then a gray C-130 flew overhead, setting off a new round of panic. I tried to reassure people that the plane was not a threat.

QUOTE

9/11/02 Scott Cook, genuine witness to C-130:

"Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon. It was coming from an odd direction (planes don�t go east-west in the area), and it was descending at a much steeper angle than most aircraft. Trailing a thin, diffuse black trail from its engines, the plane reached the Pentagon at a low altitude and made a sharp left turn, passing just north of the plume, and headed straight for the White House.

All the while, I was sort of talking at it: "Who the hell are you? Where are you going? You�re not headed for downtown!" Ray and Verle watched it with me, and I was convinced it was another attack. But right over the tidal basin, at an altitude of less than 1000 feet, it made another sharp left turn to the north and climbed rapidly. Soon it was gone, leaving only the thin black trail."

2006:

This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT on Jan 21 2008, 05:58 PM

SPreston

Posted: Jan 21 2008, 06:24 PM

Patriotic American

Group: Members
Posts: 241
Member No.: 1,045
Joined: 14-May 07

I would add one witness to your Only saw plane (possibly from far away location)

Chris Stephenson, controller-in-charge at Reagan National Airport tower on the morning of 9-11 2001

QUOTE (Voices from the air traffic world USA Today)

Chris Stephenson, 44, controller-in-charge at Reagan National Airport tower on the morning of 9-11 2001

After the second jet hit the Trade Center, the airport tower that overlooks the Washington Monument and the Capitol from across the Potomac River was roiling with activity.

Stephenson's initial concern was following FAA orders to halt takeoffs. He stopped takeoffs for flights headed toward New York, then Boston. Within a few minutes, no one was allowed to take off.

About this time, someone from American Airlines telephoned. "We don't want any of our airplanes going airborne," the caller said. "Send them back to the gate."

"I just told them, 'Nobody's going anywhere,'" Stephenson said.

About 9:30, the phone that connects his tower to the Secret Service rang. A voice on the other end said an unidentified aircraft was speeding toward Washington. Stephenson looked at the radarscope and saw that the jet was about five miles to the west.

The airplane was completely out of place. "I knew what had just happened in New York. I had a pretty good idea what was up," he said.

He looked out the tower window and saw the jet turning to the right and descending. The jet did a full circle and whoever was flying knew what he was doing. The wings never rocked or oscillated, Stephenson said.

The jet disappeared behind a building in nearby Crystal City, Va., and exploded into the Pentagon. A fireball blew several hundred feet into the air. For several minutes, a huge cloud of debris � paper, insulation and pulverized building materials � hung in the air.

Stephenson and the others stood in stunned silence for several seconds. But then the phones started ringing again and they got back to shutting the airport down.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/sept11/2002-08-11-voices_x.htm

rob balsamo	Posted: Jan 22 2008, 03:59 AM
LGA Patriot Group: Admin Posts: 4,430 Member No.: 1 Joined: 13-August 06	pinned! Thanks Aldo. Now we have a link to send everyone who uses "There were thousands of witness that saw it hit..." For those who wish to debate the above collection of information, please start a new thread in the debate forum and link the thread from here. Thank you.