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[will44]

Well, about the proposal, it sounds like this develoment was planned from the start of the book. There's no way DC could have know Northstar was going to propose too. It's like when both companies brought back Bucky and Todd at the same time.

In the book it sounds like Alan and Sam have a long term relationship, maybe even dating for years. And the stress of long distance is weighing on them. Why wouldn't Alan propose in that situation. Also, leading up to the issue, DC never mentioned the proposal in its press, So I don't think it was n attempt to get attention. It felt pretty organic.

[Grayson-ite]

Well, just so I state my point correctly, I'm not complaining about the plot being used to gain attention. These things happen well in advance of when news actually breaks, and I don't think anyone could have planned the timing so well. No, my complaint is that the marriage issue/discussion just seems to be the only "well" writers go to these days, when they want to tell a gay story. It's not just in comics either; it's in all media. It used to be an "AIDS" storyline, then it was a "gay-bashing" storyline, now it's a "gay marriage" storyline. It can be frustrating, because it is so one-dimensional, and honestly, stereotypical. And it really shows the writers misunderstanding about gay life. I've been partnered for four years, with no marriage (although, practically speaking, that just became a possibility a year ago). Granted, we talk about it, but our life is so much more than that..if someone was to write a story about us, running out to get married would be pretty far down on the list of interesting plots, I think. Like I said, ANY story with a gay subplot is a step forward to me, and my complaints may seem a bit like wanting my cake and eating it too. But my point is, it feels a bit like you're the subject of an "after-school special", when you keep hearing these same plots all of the time.

For instance, all I needed from this first issue was what I got in the first page or two: Alan arriving at the airport, his boyfriend/fiancee meeting him there with a hug and a kiss, and some talk of a romantic weekend together. Nothing more. It's subtle, and its the same thing that I'd see with any other straight "superhero couple". Be brave enough to write a story that doesn't hit all of the "talking points" in the first few pages. When a writer does that, it says three things to me: 1) you're probably not the ideal person to be telling this type of story, if that's the most interesting subject you can come up with to talk about; 2) you're looking for instant recognition for being able to "tackle the controversial issues"; and 3) you're not confident enough that you'll be able to keep the readership for a longer, slower story, so you want to be sure to get it all in right up front.

As I've said before, look at the way in which Francis Manapul has introduced Pied Piper into the Flash world. It has been so slow...so subtle...and it feels like he really knows there's so much more to gays than just running out to get married. I don't know yet if Hartley and his partner are married, or even living together yet...honestly, I don't care. But I know that they are a couple, and that there is an interesting backstory there that is probably just simmering beneath the surface. And when the time is right, and it fits the story, it will become a more significant part of the book. For now though, it's enough to see it in the background. Even Bunker in the Teen Titans book, in my opinion, is being written well. He's there, he's obviously gay, but we aren't seeing him battle bullying or teen suicides on every page. He's light-hearted, he's fun, and he's interesting. That's all he needs to be at the moment, as we, the reader, are given time to start building up an interest in, and buying into the character. The same could have very easily been done with Alan Scott, in my opinion.

I don't know..its just my opinion, but I was hoping for a bit more of a slow burn, rather than "I'm Out, I'm Proud, Let's get Married!"

[will44]

ah, I see now. Yeah, it is definitely the "hot topic" with homosexuality now. Maybe 10 years from now it'll be all about same sex couples and adoption! Sadly, bringing kids into comics just creates a huge timeline headache as the child ages but the parents don't....

But in all seriousness, I see your point. Marvel, DC, Archie, all jumping on the marraige bandwagon in some capacity with same sex couples.... good point!

[Grayson-ite]

Exactly...Archie is the worst offender of all, actually. Poor Kevin Keller...not only did he come out, but he tackled school bullying, gays in the military, gay marriage, and even interracial marriages. And all in one year! LOL

But in a sense, that works for me in the Archie-verse, because Riverdale is the "perfect world" where that kind of thing can happen, and it almost seems realistic! And, its supposed to be for a younger audience, so I see no reason why they shouldn't be left to think good things about the world. There's plenty of time for them to be corrupted by the real world when they get older...let them believe that the world is a good place for as long as they can!!

Another book writer that I thought has done a good job is Christos Gage in Avengers Academy. I forgot to mention that. I really like the way that he has handled Stryker's coming out process. And the way in which it was handled stayed very true to his character. Digressing here but, if you haven't been reading Avengers Academy, you really should. It's a terrific book, especially if you like the teen team concept. In my opinion, they are one of the best written teams in either Marvel or DC.

[will44]

well, if nothing else you've pointed out 3 or 4 great examples of gay characters being written well, and that's a huge improvement from a number of years ago. That's good right?

But, one more thought came to me about the "proposal." it was a little over the top, Alan and Sam exchanging sappy banter, kissing, 'we're so in love, marry me,' and then BOOM!

It was almost like a cliche cop movie where the old veteran is just one day from retirement, he bought a boat to sail the world with his wife, the house is paid off, the kids are out of college... you just KNOW that guy is going to die in the next scene to give the hero motivation to go after the villain. The whole thing with Sam and Alan smacks of a similar cliche moment to make Alan invested in being a hero with his newfound powers.

[dragonbat]

Graysonite, out of curiousity, have you been reading Avengers Academy? It looks to me like Gage is hitting the right notes with Stryker and Julie Power (I keep forgetting if she's still Lightspeed or has a new codename). OTOH, that could just be my straight privilege talking.

[Grayson-ite]

Yes Dragonbat...just mentioned it actually. Gage is, in my opinion, doing a terrific job with Stryker. I don't know much about Julie Power/Lightspeed, as she's still very new to me, but it did strike a perfect note with me, the way in which the two of them bonded so quickly. It's a hard dynamic to explain to someone who hasn't lived it, but that's almost EXACTLY how it happens...not always at that age level, but at some point in time, you just develop an instant bond like that. I couldn't have written that better myself. And since that time, Gage has struck all the right chords in terms of Stryker's actions, and fitting in with his character flaws. THAT is an organic telling of a gay coming out story.

I think the only real issue that I've heard discussed negatively about it (and it wasn't really much of a problem for me) was the fact that Gage decided to have Stryker be a victim of sexual abuse as a child. The argument, of course, was that by using that back-story, it was feeding into the belief that gays are products of something horrible like that as a child. Now, on the contrary, I felt that it actually was used well by Gage, showing that it was the cause of Stryker not coming to terms with being gay, because he wasn't sure if he really was gay, or if these were somehow related to the abuse he experienced. That made a lot of sense to me, and so I had no issue with the plot.

And Will, to answer your question, I agree that this is most likely analogous to the scene in a cop movie you describe. However, here's where its different. Imagine if you were watching that movie, and in it, that scene happens within the first five minutes of the film. You wouldn't have even have had time to get to know the character at that point, and you'd have no investment in him. It would make no sense to you to have that be the basis of the motivation for the main character. And you'd KNOW that it was a cheap manipulation by the director, rather than good storytelling.

Also, you're absolutely right that the good story-telling that exists in some characters is progress. For sure, it is. It's just that those aren't the stories that are getting press. It's the poorly written ones, that get all of the fanfare, it seems. Big-name writers who want to get on the bandwagon of whatever is in the social-consciousness at the moment. But, I could be completely wrong...its only one issue after all. Perhaps this will be the greatest story ever told - the rest of the book sure has my interest piqued!

In any case, it's all good...just gaining more visibility is a big, important step, in a very long journey.