New Doctor Who Discussion Thread, WATER ALWAYS WINS

The good: Hmm. Most of it, actually. It's certainly gotten me interested enough to keep watching.

The bad: The music. Or, more specifically, the Doctor's theme. It works for the main titles, but it's annoying when used in the show itself. I wasn't overly impressed with the music at other times, either, but it wasn't anywhere near as jarring.

The ugly: The bluescreening. I don't know if it's because the show's shot on video, or if their effects people just suck, but it's rather obvious and annoying (especially where it was used in place of shooting on location).

I've not seen the leaked "Rose"--I haven't yet joined the broadband revolution--and I find the blue-screen comment rather interesting. One thing I had always noticed about Who was the different look between scenes shot on video and those shot on film--the studio work was always video, the location work was always film, and there was a definite change in texture. So, if new Who "gets" that I'll admit to feeling happy because of the fidelity in look and style to the original series and other British television productions, while the 1996 telefilm had a distinctly American look to it.

Now we just need an American outlet for the series.

And why did ABC just feel the need to advertise Boston Legal's four week hiatus with a clip of James Spader dressed as Batman? It was a nice scene in the Halloween episode, but why bring it up again?

This wasn't the leaked version (or, rather, it didn't come from the same source; I don't know if the leaked version was the same or not), but rather the final aired version.

Hmm. I honestly have to say that usually I can't tell the difference between the two. So I couldn't say whether they did that here or not. If they did, though, that's a nice touch.

Agreed.

So that they can utterly confuse people who see the ad mentioned on message boards and try to picture Daniel Jackson dressing up as Batman?

if you watcch enough old 'doctor who' you learn to tell the difference
it's really easy when a show goes back and forth between studio and lcation
but all of the so-called 'nerw doctor who' is shot on video i think
i have not seen it yet
i will hate it when i do

If you go in to the show thinking that you'll hate it, why will you even bother to watch it?

have you ever met a 'star wars' fan before?

Oh. Point.

Tights! *is in happy place*

I've now seen "Rose," not the leaked version, but rather the broadcast version. Overall, I liked it. It's not classic Who in any sense--it's a little too glitzy at times, there's too much emphasis on Rose's character--but it was fun and bodes well for the future.

I liked "Rose" rather a lot, although there were a couple things that bothered me that I can't remember just now.

The new TARDIS interior still doesn't work for me, but I like it better than I would have thought from the screencaps.

The frenetic pacing was a bit of a surprise, but I thought it was successful enough, though the action that kicked in in the last ten minutes may have been a bit too much.

And I liked the music.

Thank you for reminding me that I haven't said anything about the other three episodes.

Watched "The End of the World." The Doctor gets entirely too much use out of his magic tool-thingy, and the climactic sequence went on a bit long, but all in all I liked it, and Eccleston is the Doctor.

It's the sonic screwdriver! That thing can excavate holes through solid rock ten feet in diameter!

I thought that was what it was called. Apparently it can do anything except . . . but you won't have seen 2702 yet.

"The Unquiet Dead" and "Aliens of London" were both very good, though I could have done with a bit less in the way of fart jokes.

Speaking of sonic screwdrivers, I want one. I actually bought an old-style one made of die-cast metal at a convention a few years ago, but I lost it a couple years later. Can't find it for the life of me, though I've no idea where it would have gone.

Best thing to do with it was to hold it up to a locked door, and when it failed to unlock, say, "Even the sonic screwdriver won't get me out of this one."

Just that? No foot-tall RC Dalek?

If I get a new Dalek, Horace will be jealous. I don't want him turning that gun against me.

What's so bad about the gun? Is it something other than, well, a gun?

Have you seen what those things do to a man!? I don't want my insides scrambled.

No, no I haven't seen what they do. "Dalek" isn't until next week.

I need hobbies. I keep thinking how cool it would be to build my own functioning Dalek prop.

Sad. Just sad.

Well, it'd be fairly easy to do the AI, seeing as how they can't use stairs.

'World War Three" wasn't bad, though I think "Aliens of London"/"World War Three" is the weakest story yet, more so than "The End of the World" (which was an enjoyable milieu episode but a terrible story). I don't think I like the way the Doctor manipulates Rose ("Hey, come see this amazing thing; all you have to do is abandon your family and friends"), and the undue emphasis to date on Jackie and Mickey I could also do without. Who's this show about, again?

The fart jokes, much criticized on TBBS, were annoying but ultimately minor. More irritating for me is the constant reliance on the sonic screwdriver. Did the older seasons have him use it as frequently as twice an episode every couple of eps? It deprives the character of any innate wisdom or skill. Tsk.

The promo for "Dalek" is promising; I had a spasm of ecstasy or two at the end of it, though I wonder whether it was wise to put the money shot (so to speak) in the commercial.

Oh, and the political asides in "World War Three" I could have done without as well, just because they served no discernable purpose.

I don't remember its first appearance--I'm pretty sure it was in a Troughton episode, but I won't swear to it--but I can tell its last appearance, the Davison story "The Visitation." If it made an appearance more than once a season in those dozen years I'd be greatly surprised.

I have to disagree; I liked neither the milieu nor the story for "The Unquiet Dead". Definitely liked both better there, though "End" was probably better.

I'd mind it more if he hadn't offered Rickey--err, Mickey--the chance to come along first. (At least, I think it was first. )

And Rose had a point--they could come back right after they left. In theory. We saw how well that turned out last time....

The Doctor, plus one. And frankly, I'd rather see too much of them than too little; if they're on Earth, especially in London in the present/near future, it'd be wrong if Plus One didn't keep in contact with them. Not just wrong--Bermagaesque.

No clue. But at least one use, I have no clue what he was doing. (Namely, when he used it inside the lift.) And the other... well, I appreciate a good bluff.

Was the Dalek supposed to sound menacing? Because it sounds... not.

Ouch. Even with the different episode/season lengths, that's still entering "crutch" territory.

Or maybe Russell Davies just really likes its pretty blue light?

It was the second and fourth Doctor who made the most use of the screwdriver to my memory. I think the second was the only to ever use it to screw screws.

Anyway, I don't think it was used so much in the old show. Its tendency to promote lazy scripting was why producer John Nathan-Turner had it destroyed in "The Visitation," though at that point in the show it wasn't being used much anymore anyway.

If it was destroyed, how'd he get the new one? For that matter, how'd he get it in the first place?

And I forgot to mention--the music's growing on me. To the point where I'm about to make an MP3 of the theme to go with my MU Enterprise one.

The theme music is celestial, Timson.

Um... it was destroyed in "The Visitation," though it made a comeback in the post-series novels. Not sure if the way it did was ever explained or not; I haven't read enough of them. Its return was confirmed by the TV movie.

They're not too hard to build, as Romana built herself one in time for "The Horns of Nimon." And the ninth Doctor's is of a pretty different design to the older ones, anyway.

Not sure I'd go that far. Considering it, though. Know anyplace I can hear the original version (or were there multiple versions over the older series)? Without buying anything, that is?

Maybe it comes standard, along with the magical changes in the TARDIS with each regeneration?

Or not.

The original series had four versions (Seasons 1-17, Seasons 18-22, Season 23, Seasons 24-26), depending on how you count them, and the TV movie added another one.

The Doctor Who WAV Archive has them all, though the quality's not wonderful on most of them. I think I have decent versions of most of them either on the comp or on CD's, so let me see what I can do...

Bah. "The Unquiet Dead" was easily the best episode to date; certainly it was the most dramatically powerful.

It wasn't, actually. But even if it had been first, I'd still be a bit uncomfortable with it. I don't like the idea of a companion being dragged along unwilling, though I suppose it has probably happened before.

True, but if she does manage to come back shortly after leaving she's going to be aging much more rapidly than Jackie and Ricky, which brings its own sets of problems. No matter how much you jigger the timeline, every second she spends with the Doctor is a second she's away from home.

This, of course, would not be a problem if the stories to date hadn't focused on and made such an angst point of the whole "Will she or won't she" deal. For me, it opens a can of worms they can't quite deal with.

True, but her keeping in contact with them doesn't require them to be key to the story movements, as they were here. They are worthy characters, though, so I'm not seeing it as too much of a problem.

He actually uses it a third time here, to force a locked door. (I'm assuming the use in the lift was to shut it in a hurry.)

I think it was more of a continuity point than a drama one, actually. It wasn't particularly scary here, no. (Then again, I've never been scared by a Dalek in my infrequent original series exposure to them.)

That's it exactly.

Is it unwillingly, though? She could have stayed if she wanted to. (But then, they also could've left later and gone back a few hours....)

Well, she's already got almost a year on them. And there's no reason why they couldn't, say, not come back immediately, but rather after about as long as she's been gone.

I'd really rather they didn't deal with that can of worms either. Didn't work with Buffy, doesn't work here.

Makes sense.

Makes sense again. What's up with that?

Dubiously willing, I ought to have said. She certainly seems a bit conflicted, though perhaps I'm reading too much into it.

That's very true, but the cold equations still apply. Plus the TARDIS doesn't seem too good at reaching precise times (it moves at the speed of plot, actually).

Maybe it's just that I feel for Jackie in this situation. It makes me not like Rose as much, which is troubling, though I suppose it ties into the stated goal of making the companion less of a surrogate for the audience.

Why's it not scary? Or why did they use its not-scariness. The first, I really don't know about. The second, prolly franchise loyalty. This is supposed to be the last time we see this brand of Dalek anyway . . .

On an unrelated note, the Doctor needs not to be cute anymore. And the story needs not to imply relationship stuff between them. Just no.

I don't think you are; there was definitely conflict there.

"The End of the World" says it can do that just fine, "Aliens of London" says it can't. What's a n00b like me supposed to believe?

I... at least recognize that I should. Not sure if I do or not.

Whereas to me, having her actually still have ties to Earth, to humans--that makes her more of a surrogate, because it makes her more real.

Why? Just because you want the Doctor for yourself?

You are supposed to believe whatever the show tells you to believe. Whether it is perfect accuracy, or landing in 1980s Heathrow Airport when aiming for 16th century Paris, is up to the episode.

Grr. You'd think that each writer could at least be consistent within their own scripts.

Exactly. In the new show alone, we've seen variances from intent of up to nine years, and spot-on arrival in the intended era. It's simply true, for the same reason that the sonic screwdriver abruptly wasn't good enough in "The End of the World."

She's an odd character to be creating sympathy with, to be sure; Ricky might be better.

When I say "surrogate for the audience," I mean more in terms of being a character who is there simply to be helped out of tight spots by the Doctor and provide explanations rather than as a fully-fleshed player in the story. How successfully this has been done to date I am unsure. At any rate, surrogacy entails being less real, not more.

I deserved that, but: Ew. No. The Doctor is not a sex object. (Perhaps Willow isn't either.)

Well, TARDIS travel is a bit like warp drive in Star Trek, really. It operates on plot terms, and nothing else.

To be fair, it has improved over time. Back in the 1960s, the Doctor could never end up where he wanted. The "Aliens of London" landing would have been amazing by those standards.

The problem of the TARDIS is that is should always be capable of pinpoint accuracy-- its general state of disrepair, however, precludes that.

To quote the sixth Doctor: "The TARDIS, when working properly, is capable of many amazing things. Not unlike myself."

That was pretty much rendered impossible by his behavior in "Rose", though.

Oh. In that case, I'd say they've been rather successful (he says, not knowing what the older companions were like).

Ah. Sorry.

It was? What did he do that was so bad?

Small things, like Rose occasionally helping herself out of a dilemma, have helped a bit, as does the further emphasis on her home life. There's a catch-22 here somewhere.

The "Ew" is more directed at the fact of the Doctor's cuteness than at you. It's disquieting. He's the Doctor, damn it. He should be middle-aged, dubiously attractive, and largely unsufferable.

More like what he didn't do: anything.

Well, they messed that one right up.

I think they got the third part right, anyway.

From their not-wonderful-quality versions... like the newest the best. Still not sure how I feel about the first version or two (hard to tell what's what from the way their site's set up), but don't really like the later ones.

The only version of the Doctor Who theme I really don't like is the David Arnold arrangement. Something about it just doesn't sit right with me. Too Yanni-like for me.

Oh, and the John Debney arrangement for the television film is odd, but after repeated listenings it grows on you. Maybe it shouldn't really be done as an orchestra piece. I do, however, like the rest of the film's score. There's a romantic quality to it that fits with Paul McGann's Doctor.

My personal favorite arrangement is the McCoy-era theme, though anything from Tom Baker onwards will have a nostalgic pull for me.

I like David Arnold all right, and the John Debney one is probably my favorite. The whole score for the movie is quite good, as you said.

I think my favorite is Peter Howell's (Seasons 18-22), though I am bizarrely fond of the Dominic Glynn one (Season 23).

David Arnold arrangement? Would that be one from the show, or was it done separately?

That's the same piece? I sure couldn't tell....

I think it works fine as a combined orchestral-electronic piece. (See my aforementioned love for the 9th Doctor's version. ) But pure orchestral definitely didn't work.

Oh, sorry to confuse your n00bosity. The David Arnold is the one done for the eighth Doctor audio adventures. (The same David Arnold who scores the Bond films, mind you-- a nice catch for little old Big Finish.)

John Debney's is the one for the TV movie, with all the swooshes and stuff.