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Title: metal mags for cobray m11/9


p0ng - April 11, 2008 04:17 AM (GMT)
i've been ghosting through these forums for awhile now and i have noticed that no one has mentioned the metal 30rnd mags that FTF industries has started offering for the m11/9 (so i figured i would mention them). i recently bought one ( even though it cost $50!!!! plus shipping). i haven't tried it out yet at the range but it does fit nice and tight in the gun and seems to feed just fine when i operate the bolt by hand. the mag is all metal, even the follower, and the spring is very stiff. it is sturdy being made of three pieces of sheet metal, one of them is bent in a box shape to make the mag housing with it being overlapped and joined together with spot welds at the back, the other two pieces are notched in the appropriate spots for the mag catch, and bent around the main mag housing to support the feed lips connected with spot welds to the mag housing and ground down so that it will fit tight in the mag well of the pistol. the bottom plate of the mag is sheet metal that slides on and the follower is metal and appears to be of a different manufacture than the rest of the mag. its does fit quite well in the mag and does not tilt or move nearly as bad as the factory zytel mags. the spring was very stiff, i barely could get it loaded to 30 rnds by hand, it was very hard to do so. i just bought my m11 not long ago so i don't have a mag loader as yet, but i will invest in one just for loading this mag, as soon as i get enough money scraped together to order more spare magazines. the reason i'm describing with such detail is that there is only one picture, and it is not very good. oh, the mag is finished with some sort of gray finish that i'm not familiar with, but it does appear as though it will resist rust.

here is a link to the place i'm referring to:
FTF industries

just scroll down and you'll see em. i'm not sure if the link will work correctly (i'm rather new at actually posting stuff in forums) so if it doesn't, sry bout that just let me know and i'll try again.

personal notes: i was pleased to find metal mags for my m11, then i saw the price tag at which point i was not so pleased. but i figured "what the hell..." and ordered one any way. once i got it and looked at it, stuck it in my pistol, and realized that someone appeared to have spent some time to bend, weld and grind on it, i felt alot better about my purchase and decided that if it shot as good as it fit, i would buy more. i do plan on updating this post with some actual field performance data once i have time to go to the range.
one thing to note about FTF industries is their shipping policy. i have made two purchases from them and both times i paid $9.20 for it to be sent ups. both times they have shipped it the $7.00 usps shipment option. they were very good with getting my order processed and shipped, and i got it in a couple days, no problems, but i did ask ups, not postal service. so if anyone does order from them, pick usps and save yourself $2.20.

now i probably misspelled many things and made even more grammar errors, so please accept my apologizes, ever since going to college its seems my grasp of written english has diminished. if i left anything out or if there are any questions, please leave a post and i will try to respond in a timely manner.

Looter Shooter - April 11, 2008 11:34 PM (GMT)
Most of us here are owners of MasterPiece Arms guns and use sten magazines for our 9mms so that's why cobray metal mags hasn't come up in discussion until now.

What's confusing is FTF industries, on their page you linked to, is using a picture of a new manufacture GREASE GUN .45 MAG (pictured below) instead of a 9mm mag, even though the listing right next to the picture says "9mm" and makes NO MENTION of the .45 mag pictured.

user posted image

I had heard about the new manufacture grease gun mags, but not about new manufacture 9mm metal cobray mags that FTF lists.

p0ng - April 12, 2008 11:59 PM (GMT)
the picture you posted is indeed the magazine that i was referring to and purchased. i have no experience with grease gun magazines so i cannot make a comparison between the two, either in appearance or actual dimensions. however, i did try to fit a .45 acp cartridge into the magazine and it would not fit (meaning the feed lips were too close and extended too far towards the front of the mag to allow it). the 9mm cartridges however fit fine. if perhaps the outside dimensions of a grease gun magazine and this metal m11 mag were close enough i imagine the mag could be altered for a 9mm m11. but as i stated before i have no experience with them, maybe i can buy a MPA10 and get some grease gun mags one day, but its going to take a while before my finances allow it. if mr. looter_shooter would be kind enough to educate me on the differences between the two mags perhaps i could make a judgement. on second thought, would pictures help? i'm not sure how to go about posting them, but i can figure it out if need be.

on a different note, i did manage to go to the range today. i tested the mag somewhat, not extensively as i would have like, but the rain came and i had to cut it short. the mag functioned flawlessly for the, perhaps 80 rnds i put through it. i know, its not alot, but it was taking time to reload it by hand (*sigh* not to mention *ow*; i still have no mag loader as yet). my m11 is semi-auto so i do not know how the magazine will function during a full-auto burst, but i did not have issues during slow or rapid firing with my semi-auto model.

i did have one failure to feed on my factory Zytel magazine (i only shot one clip on it as it was already loaded and it seemed a shame to have ammo just sitting there....), i think my follower likes to stick in that mag, but thats another issue for another post.

personal notes: i'm rather please with the new metal magazine on every point except cost. but i guess it you want good you have to pay for it. i really wish i could have tested it more, but i HATE getting my armament wet. i do plan on buying more as soon as money becomes available, that and alot more ammo. oh, and a mag loader too, need to remember that.

p0ng - April 13, 2008 12:43 AM (GMT)
UPDATE!!!!

i just found what i believe to be a different source for the metal magazines for the cobray m11/9 i have refered to previously. and best of all, ITS CHEAPER!!! yay!!!

Surefire Arms

they also appear to have more pictures than the FTF industries site. best i can tell they are the same magazine. i'm goin to have to order some and see for sure!!!! to hell with money, i can always go hungry of something.... as soon i as get em i'll let you guys know the low down on em.

oh, for group buy, they have discounts... :I'mouttahere:

2 for a $1 less

and 5 for $9.80 less!
:google eyes:

essentially i can get 5 with shipping for the price of 4 from FTF... without shipping....

The Architect - April 14, 2008 07:51 AM (GMT)
Wow thanks. That's why I love the members that come here, they point to helpful stuff I haven't found (stuff I'm amazed I haven't found). I can't see anything that will stop me from purchasing a few of those from surefirearms.

Looter Shooter - April 14, 2008 08:09 AM (GMT)
QUOTE
if mr. looter_shooter would be kind enough to educate me on the differences between the two mags perhaps i could make a judgement.

Here's a grease gun mag
user posted image

Wow, I guess those mags FTF and surefirearms are selling are 9mms for the m11 after all. I'm glad to see them on the market. They sure do resemble the grease gun mags though. Most m11 mags, whether metal or plastic don't resemble grease gun mags like this though, which is why it had me thinking that FTF made a mistake with their picture.

p0ng - April 17, 2008 10:35 PM (GMT)
wow, they really do look like grease gun magazines. thx for the pic. ok, this post might get long but please bear with me and i'll try to stick close to the point. hmm. maybe a two part post will be better.....

i did get a five pack of magazines from surefire arms. they are indeed the same magazine. however. the feed lips have been altered, (i'll let the pictures do the talking, if i can get them to work). so i'm goin to post the pics, hopefully get them labeled correctly and go from there. :blink:

pictures of magazine from FTF Industries:
user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image
user posted imageuser posted image

pictures of magazines from Surefire Arms:
user posted imageuser posted imageuser posted image
user posted image

p0ng - April 17, 2008 11:03 PM (GMT)
pictures of magazines from surefire arms (continued):
user posted imageuser posted image

(and finally) side by side comparison:
user posted image

whew....
ok, so hopefully now everybody has got the picture (note: pun intended). the five magazines i got from surefire arms seem to be good. they must have done some work on the inside of the magazine as well as on the feed lips because the spring does not feel quite as stiff and the follower feels much smoother while in motion. it is also much easier to load by hand (yeah, i forgot to order a mag loader.... again.... <_< ).

personal notes: for the price incomparison to FTF (as well as other places i've been able to find) coupled with what appears to be added work done on the magazine, i am pleased so far with my purchase from Surefire arms. now, all i have to do is get ammo, and plenty of it, get my gear to the range, and test these things out.

gpr - April 17, 2008 11:08 PM (GMT)
if you had to hand load sten mags, you would have NOT forgot the loader :blink: ...gpr

p0ng - April 18, 2008 12:17 AM (GMT)
wow, maybe i won't get in trouble for spam.....
alrighty, i've done some digging and found some (more) info on these metal magazines. i'll make a few quotes and give links where i got the info in case anybodys is interested they can read it in full (erm, give links then make quotes, every thing in *"sample quote"* is a quote). the first page i found with a good picture and an actual name for these magazines was this one:
Mac Stuff
they had this pic:
user posted image

and refered to this magazine (which looks virtually identical to mine) as:
*"M11/9 STEEL MAGAZINE
RECON ORDNANCE 30rd 9mm
for original style M11/9 Open Bolt SMGs and Closed Bolt Semi Pistols &Carbines
Argentine SMG Magazine, modified slightly for M11/9. Flawless, reliable function in Sub-guns.
69.95"*
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From there i was able to find more interesting things..... :drool:
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Mac10 Talk : StealthyBlagga
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M11/9 gear

*"Recon Ordnance Steel Magazines
One of the weakest links in the M-11/9 system is the factory Zytel magazine. These mags are constructed entirely of polymer, as opposed to metal-reinforced polymer like Glock mags. Under the rapid cycling of the bolt and the heat of full-auto fire, the feed lips tend to wear rather quickly, causing various types of malfunctions. There are also reports of the seams splitting, and other structural failures. Enter Jerry Prasser of Recon Ordnance, who offers what is arguably the best magazine available for the M-11/9. These double-stack/single-feed mags are constructed of heavy-gauge steel with welded seams and a parkerized finish. They start life as a military magazine of foreign origin, designed for an entirely different SMG (possibly a Madsen?), then are professionally converted by Jerry to fit the M-11/9. These mags fit in the M-11/9 magwell with no rattle or binding, lock up tight and release cleanly. Feed reliability is excellent for a single-feed design. Of the 12 magazines I initially bought, I had one that was extra-tight in the mag well and my have contributed to a couple failures to feed; I intend to mark the mag and keep it under observation, and if necessary contact Jerry for a replacement - he guarantees fit and function in his product, and he means it! A couple other notes: 1) Because the Recon mags are thicker than the Zytel, they will not lock into the magwell with the wireform stock in the retracted position. No biggie, since you'll probably want to replace that stock with something better, anyway... or just deploy the stock before you insert the mag. 2) With the Recon mag loaded to full capacity (30), it will not lock into the magwell when the gun's bolt is closed. Since one should ALWAYS load an open-bolt SMG from a closed-bolt condition, it is necessary to download the mags by 1 or 2 rounds to facilitate insertion."*
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Max 11 News
*"Metal Magazines-

Jerry Prasser of Recon Ordnance Company has steel magazines for the M-11/9. These magazines are made from Argentinian PAM II submachinegun magazines. For use in the M-11/9, the magazines are modified and then re-parkerized for an "as new" finish.

Jerry also has magazines for the M-11A1, (the .380 ACP "MAC"). Quality steel magazines for the M-11A1 are hard to find, so don't miss this opportunity to stock up!

Price is $29.00 each. These are the best steel magazines for the M-11/9 that you are ever going to find. Don't miss this opportunity to stock up!

Here is his contact information:

Jerry Prasser
Recon Ordnance Company
P.O. Box 829
Fond du Lac, WI 54936

Phone: (920) 922-1515
E-mail: reconordREMOVETHISSPAMGARD@aol.com
Remove "REMOVETHISSPAMGARD" from his e-mail address to e-mail him. "*
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So according to the info i've gathered, this Mr. Jerry Prasser at Recon Ordinance is possibly the guy turning these mags out. don't know if he is the only one, but his name seems to be at the front. so, gathering more info.... :read:

Lula Usa
*"In 2004, INDEP sold all dies, tooling, fixtures and manufacturing rights to group of well established names in the firearms industry. Stan Andrewski, owner of Stan's Gunsmithing for over 30 years in New Hampshire, Jerry Prasser, owner of Recon Ordnance for 29 years in Wisconsin, and Ralph Dimicco, co-owner of Riley's Gun Shop. The company was named LUSA USA."*

personal note: hmm.... well, looks like Mr. Jerry Prasser and Recon Ordinance are rather established and have some reputation. (note: i would rather have a MPA 30 than a LULA <- personal opinion) i've read around on various forums in addition to what i've posted here, seems that most of the magazines from Recon Ordinance work great, however some some have had issues and have had to be sent back to Recon Ordinance for replacement. I have not seem any definant positive or negative posts about the service or just how many problems occur in any sort of time frame, etc. so as such, i am unable make any real judgements on how good a deal the $29 steel magazine are. however, since surefire arms is offering these mags for $36.99 after they have been gone over and had some modifications that hopefully gives better function (will see when i go to the range), not to mention a nifty website to order from, it seems that surefire arms is a good source for these mags (note: that was a personal opinion based on my best info so far, they could be crap, will see at the range....). if someone is a do it yourself kindof person they might could do like Mr. StealthyBlagga and modify there own Argentinian PAM II magazine for use in their M11/9. ahhh... choices choices..... :scratching chin:

p0ng - April 18, 2008 12:26 AM (GMT)
lol, you're right about the mag loader. but i tend to get excited about something and focus my attention on it and forget the "little accesories" that are really important. like ammo sometimes. or targets. *sigh...*




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