Latest MOD UFO files

This should keep any interested in UFO quiet for a while

http://ufos.nationalarchives.gov.uk/

I saw that on the news today, thanks for posting Sherry. I shall have a look through them when I can get Adobe working again, seems to conflict with photoshop for some reason.

So interesting. I would never say there is no life out there visiting us.

They release some but what are they holding back.

It is thought provoking, Cam.

I couldn't open the first file, Duck. But had no problem opening the second. Not looked at it properly though.

I don't know. I find myself quite conflicted with regard to the idea of intelligent life (note the important word there is intelligent) out there in the Universe. On one hand, we managed through an enormous number of flukes to end up with the right conditions for our species to thrive in a very tiny window of opportunity. That makes me less hopeful that life is teeming throughout the galaxy when you factor in that the vast majority of space is utterly hostile toward complex life. Yes Kepler is finding a vast number of planets to the point where we now think that if there is a star there 'must' be planets. Again, all good and well but take a look at our own solar system, how many planets in our idyllic, peaceful little corner contain life? And we've yet, in all the thousands of planets Kepler has spotted, to find a situation that would be truly comparable and conducive toward complex life (intelligent or otherwise).

On the other hand, here we are.

I suspect that 'life' is teeming where conditions allow, after all 'nature tends to find a way' and the building blocks of complex proteins are out there throughout the galaxy, but teeming with life is not the same as teeming with intelligent life. Is it possible? absolutely, is it probable? maybe the James Webb telescope will enlighten us further.

Current evidence does not support visitation by intelligent life though.

I don't think we can be absolutely sure there's not been. Only those at the heads of states and in control might know that. And they might not want the world to know it.

Also one man's meat is another man's poison. What makes us flourish could kill another being and vice versa.

Another thought is that we could be the result of alien life from other planets. The universe is a big place and it's been here a long time. Whatever evidences we've found about its beginnings ect, it can't tell us all its secrets. I believe we know very little compared to the mysteries.

That's a lot of 'mights' Sherry and you know how allergic I am to concentrated speculation It may be fun but it is rarely productive.

As to ancient aliens... I'm more inclined toward intelligent life out there than that and I don't hold much weight in that. All the ancient alien theories boil down to one point petitio principii, aka assuming the initial point or 'Begging the question. Watch any episode of 'Ancient Aliens', look at what the supporters put forward as their evidence and how they phrase it, every time (unless they are blatantly talking nonsense) beg the question. This sort of "reasoning" is fallacious because simply assuming that the conclusion is true (directly or indirectly) in the premises does not constitute evidence for that conclusion. Obviously, simply assuming a claim is true does not serve as evidence for that claim.

First off, I'd remind you of something you've always said to me, Duck - we're nothing too special in the grand scheme of things. I'm as sure as I reasonably can be that there's other intelligent life out there somewhere and it seems to me that it's all a matter of timing with the idea of contacting other intelligent life. Aren't we capable of it already? I see it as just a matter of time until it either happens, or we find out that it already has.

Two different arguments with regard to that particular word Les. and I don't think I've ever applied it with regard to possible life out in the galaxy/universe, only when comparing our species to that of all others in reference to 'The afterlife'. Which is a whole other argument

I know, but I was using the argument seriously to say that if we can do it - in such a short space of time - then I'd say it was highly unlikely that other intelligent civilisations haven't tried to do the same - maybe a long time ago. It depends on how long they've been trying to do it and when we get another 'wow' signal.

I'm not claiming I 'know' Duck. But most things we discover are 'mights' and theories before being discovered. We need to think to move forward. And we do that by trail and error. As Les implicated, there could be life like ours out there but more advanced than us - and maybe some not so advanced. I very much doubt there is just 'us'.

The problems we face with space travel could have been solved by those more advanced. Anything is possible in the scheme of things. Therefore I shall ponder

Of course we still have to factor in how rare 'intelligence' is based on our observable evidence. 4 billion years and out of that only 200 thousand years with a few species capable of taking intelligence to the next level, 20 thousand years of emerging intelligence and 5000/10 thousand years of 'civilisation' and that's in ideal conditions. Remembering as well that we have yet to find any planets that come close to even Mars level of 'hospitable' if you find an atmosphere 1% that of Earth hospitable and temperatures of -275. Those are some very big odds to over come even in a big old galaxy like ours.

Can I ask you to define intelligence in this context, Duck?

Two problems with the above Sherry

1. Trial and error is part of learning but we learn not by supposition but by observation. Coming up with a theory based on what you 'think' it might be does not move us forward until we have observed either through replication or mathematical model, which is why I say focusing on what we 'know' is more helpful than 'maybes.

2. Anything may be possible Sherry but far fewer are probable and when they break the universal laws they then pretty much become improbable. Concentrating on the probable tends to lead to better results.

Speculation is fine but at some point we need to deal with the facts. Well, we do if we want to get anywhere.

Wasn't the Higgs partical a theory? We have to think ahead or we'd stagnate. I also think we need to be open that universal laws aren't all found as yet.

I suppose in the context of this thread I would describe it as a convergent set of skills

Speech
Understanding speech
written word
Memory
The ability to think abstractly
Adaption
Solve problems
Understanding an objects relative space
The ability to reason
creation of functioning society

but most of all the ability to adapt to the environment and to adapt the environment to our needs. So to simplify that, in the context of the thread and the question:

Human intelligence.

Based on observed mathematical problems not plucking ideas out of the air. Here's the difference:

Q Hey! why the heck isn't everything flying apart like the standard model says it should? We know what its doing but we dont know why.

A. The Higgs particle might be a boson, a type of particle that allows multiple identical particles to exist in the same place in the same quantum state. It has no intrinsic spin, no electric charge, and no colour charge. It is also very unstable, decaying into other particles almost immediately which is why its awful hard to find.

compared to

Q Hey! why the heck isn't everything flying apart like the standard model says it should? We know what its doing but we dont know why.

A. Maybe its all the invisible Unicorn poo?


One is based on understanding the problem and working within the standard model and while unconventional it breaks no universal laws. The other is unfounded speculation.

Ok. And how long in the history of man did it take to find that out? I am sure there are other things to discover. Many things. And there must be many scientists who strongly believe so to. Afterall billions have probably been spent on the subject.

How on earth can anyone believe that we must be the only life in the universe.

If we are the only *coughs* 'intelligent life' then ..........

I don't think anyone is claiming anything, just speculating on the available evidence and what we know.