Title: Apport from the scole experiment
zombie444 - July 20, 2012 03:03 PM (GMT)
This 60-year-old Newspaper dated 1936 was one of two old newspapers apported by the spirit team for the Scole Group during two different sittings. Both the papers were in pristine condition when they arrived - apart from being folded. The paper itself was white - almost impossible, considering the age of this newsprint paper which was full of lignin impurities within the mechanical pulp it was made from.
Despite being kept in lightproof and airproof conditions after we received them, both newspapers yellowed within a week (normal for this type of paper).
Researchers from the SPR (Society for Psychical Research) submitted a sample of the paper to P.I.R.A. (The Paper Industry Research Association) for examination. They were able to authenticate the paper as genuine for the dates of the papers, and the printing as from the 'letterpress' process, which is now well out of datehttp://robinsphysicalphenomena.webs.com/apportsatscole.htm
OMGBanana - July 20, 2012 04:27 PM (GMT)
that is unusual.....would there be a way of preserving paper like that for years?
Les - July 20, 2012 04:30 PM (GMT)
Interesting, Zombie, thank you.
Duck - July 20, 2012 05:29 PM (GMT)
It's my understanding that the paper did not materialise during the Scole experiment or at the time the investigators were involved but rather that it was presented as evidence when they joined the investigation, just to keep the facts straight. I'd hate for anyone to be misled by the title into believing a fully formed newspaper appeared before the eyes of sceptics and believers alike. Not saying there aren't unanswered questions but then again I still have questions about Dynamo's show the other night...how the heck did he get that iphone inside a milk bottle, on the street in front of a crowd in broad daylight? beat that Scole!
zombie444 - July 21, 2012 12:42 PM (GMT)
How the hell was that forged.The letterpress style of printing was obsolete a long time ago and it must have been copied from the original but the original couldn't have still existed?
OMGBanana - July 21, 2012 01:01 PM (GMT)
nobody suggested forgery.
it did not appear in front of the investigators, but was something that happened before the experiment and was produced as evidence.
waiiiiiiiiiiiiit...how long before the investigators saw it did it appear? they said that it appeared as white but turned yellow and aged within 3 days, even when well preserved. this means its likely the investigators didnt see it as white.
zombie444 - July 21, 2012 01:21 PM (GMT)
If not forged it must have been an original copy..How it appeard is not important.The question is where did it come from ?
sherry - July 21, 2012 03:57 PM (GMT)
Well they are calling the newspaper an apport so it must have apported during a session. I have the old Scole book so when I get chance I'll take a look and see exactly what it says there. I do know the people from Scole were very serious about what they were doing, so I doubt they are making all this up.
sherry - July 21, 2012 04:12 PM (GMT)
This might shed a bit more light on the Sole experiments.http://www.thescoleexperiment.com/artcl_01.htm
zombie444 - July 21, 2012 04:15 PM (GMT)
I was just going to post that Chortle
Duck - July 21, 2012 04:42 PM (GMT)
As it was received by the Scole Group before we began our investigation and we were therefore not present at the time, we made only brief references to it in the Report
So what we have, setting aside speculation is a real newspaper from 1944 and an anecdote by believers about how it got there.
zombie444 - July 21, 2012 05:02 PM (GMT)
Are you actually serious about your opinions or is it a wind up?
Tomdog - July 21, 2012 05:15 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (zombie444 @ Jul 21 2012, 01:42 PM)|
| How the hell was that forged.The letterpress style of printing was obsolete a long time ago and it must have been copied from the original but the original couldn't have still existed? |http://www.historic-newspapers.co.uk/
It's very easy to obtain original newspapers from the 1930's
Original copies of The Daily Mirror from Dec 16 1936 can be bought from this website today.
zombie444 - July 21, 2012 05:27 PM (GMT)
Not white and in pristine condition.
Tomdog - July 21, 2012 05:33 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (zombie444 @ Jul 21 2012, 06:27 PM)|
| Not white and in pristine condition. |
Do we know for certain the paper was white and pristine?
Maybe they inspected the paper in the dark? ;) They seemed to do everything else in the dark......strange that Laughing man
OMGBanana - July 21, 2012 05:42 PM (GMT)
it looks white in the photo, but was it taken with a black and white camera?
we dont know whether the investigators saw the newspaper when it was white, as it aged in three days, so its likely they didnt.
id like to hear a statement from the people who were present when it appeared though, exactly how it happened.
zombie444 - July 22, 2012 03:43 AM (GMT)
Les - July 22, 2012 06:19 AM (GMT)
The fact is that none of us were there, so we're none of us in a position to judge the veracity of those statements. I can't see any reason for the Scole experiments to have been a mass of lies. (Sounds like a conspiracy theory to me :D ). If they say they got the paper in pristine condition, then short of proving the contrary, we have to accept that there might be something to it. Agree with Kayls. More definitive information would be useful.
Duck - July 22, 2012 07:30 AM (GMT)
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence”
“That which can be asserted without evidence, can be dismissed without evidence"
Both apply here. Simply accepting the claims is nothing more than being happy lying to yourself simply because you want the claim to be true. That's an individual right but it neither makes it true nor more likely. Only good evidence does that. And again, if the only supporting position we have is an argument from ignorance "You don't know for sure" that's not a very convincing position to be asserting an unlikely claim is it?
Les - July 22, 2012 08:38 AM (GMT)
|Both apply here. Simply accepting the claims is nothing more than being happy lying to yourself simply because you want the claim to be true. That's an individual right but it neither makes it true nor more likely. |
Don't believe it, don't disbelieve it. I'm asking for more information.
|Only good evidence does that. And again, if the only supporting position we have is an argument from ignorance "You don't know for sure" that's not a very convincing position to be asserting an unlikely claim is it?|
But we don't know for sure. Anyone who says they do, in these circumstances, is acting from preconceived ideas, no matter which side of the argument they're supporting.
Duck - July 22, 2012 11:31 AM (GMT)
I'm asking for more information.
Agree with that but lets face it, when dealing with the paranormal ambiguity remains its only real defence.
But we don't know for sure.
No we don't but we can look at past experience for clues. How often in the past have newspapers apported? From that we can make a fairly confident assertion.
Anyone who says they do, in these circumstances, is acting from preconceived ideas
Again begging the question is not a strong stance. Those preconceptions are not based on speculation but on how the world works. The statement "Newspapers do not fall out of thin air" does not require any leap of faith nor is it an extraordinary claim. "News papers do appear out of thin air" on the other hand had better come with some very convincing evidence to be taken seriously. The folk at Scole have not done so and I wouldn't hold my breath expecting any further revelations on this non event.
sherry - July 23, 2012 03:23 PM (GMT)
I wouldn't call years of dedicated and serious experiments a 'non event'.
The early days at Scole were for the members to get the phenomena going. Once it was strong enough they allowed other people in. Members of the SPR amongst them and three magicians. The magicians stated they could not replicate what they saw at Scole. Nobody who investigated could find evidence of fraud. The only thing of cause to doubt was it being done in the dark. But some events, like the lights bought their own light with them into the room.
As apports go I am pretty sure I have had one as in the old fashioned hair clip I believe was left by my gran who had been dead for around 19 years. That clip was found on my daughter's bedroom windowsil amongst her ordinary clips. It wasn't there the night before. I'd not seen one like it since my gran was alive and I put them in my grans hair the last time I saw her all those years ago. At the time of finding it I was shocked and puzzled but didn't have time to dwell on it as I was too busy bringing up two young teens. I don't even know where it is now. I've looked and looked and can't find it. Maybe it's gone back to its owner.
I know people in here won't believe me or probably think I'm de-ranged. And this is the problem. Anyone who has experiences like I have had or on a much regular basis aren't taken seriously. It's looked at like 'Here she goes again' Or 'Here he goes again'.
It's frustrating as I know these things happen which can't be explained. But I don't necessarily think 100% it's ghosts. However I do think that whatever is causing it comes from an intelligent source and of much complication of our universal surroundings.
zombie444 - July 23, 2012 03:39 PM (GMT)
They have have decided that paranormal events are impossible and that is it.Maybe being in the afterlife itself will not convince them either.
sherry - July 24, 2012 06:00 PM (GMT)
See the effect we have on people, zombie :lol: No response :lol:
zombie444 - July 25, 2012 04:04 AM (GMT)