Title: Neurosurgeon's NDE
zombie444 - July 12, 2012 03:19 PM (GMT)
Before his experience it was clear to him that death was the end.http://www.aansneurosurgeon.org/210212/6/1611
Duck - July 12, 2012 03:36 PM (GMT)
I look forward to reading his book. w-ink
Les - July 12, 2012 03:43 PM (GMT)
Do you really Duck? Great. Let me know what you think. :D
sherry - July 12, 2012 03:49 PM (GMT)
People from all walks of life write books on their personal experiences AND charge for them. Why shouldn't they? They are using their time like anyone else.
Duck - July 12, 2012 05:20 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Les @ Jul 12 2012, 03:43 PM)|
| Do you really Duck? Great. Let me know what you think. :D |
Well I'll see what they are saying on Amazon :lol:
zombie444 - July 12, 2012 06:45 PM (GMT)
I really don't think he would make such a claim and call into question science for the sole reason of making a few bucks.
OMGBanana - July 12, 2012 07:43 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (zombie444 @ Jul 12 2012, 06:45 PM)|
| I really don't think he would make such a claim and call into question science for the sole reason of making a few bucks. |
and what do the fake mediums do?
but id like to hear exactly what this guy experienced in his coma, it certainly sounds interesting
Duck - July 12, 2012 07:43 PM (GMT)
No he's misguided as well.
Les - July 12, 2012 08:01 PM (GMT)
|No he's misguided as well.|
Oh? In what way?
Duck - July 12, 2012 11:22 PM (GMT)
Misinterpretation of his experience. All we have here is an anecdote and an argument from authority..sound familiar?
Les - July 13, 2012 04:38 AM (GMT)
Yes, that sounds familiar ... from you. To some people it's a credible source. :D
Duck - July 13, 2012 07:49 AM (GMT)
Lets see, article from 2008. Changes or revelations that 'anecdote' has produced in the past four years... yep, same old same old. Oh and a book to sell. :rolleyes: It's a good lesson for all of us. No one is exempt from falling under the spell of supernatural beliefs given the right circumstances, even a neurosurgeon.
sherry - July 13, 2012 09:54 AM (GMT)
And maybe that's because the experience was real! It may be anecotal evidence but does that have to mean it isn't true?
I don't think so. Too many people have them and other naturally unexplained experiences to be written off as nothing.
Duck - July 13, 2012 12:36 PM (GMT)
Without good corroborating evidence there is no good reason to accept it as true. I'm not saying it was nothing, just that his interpretation is improbable. Again, lots of people sharing a similar experience does not equal truth either. 2 billion people believe they are eating the body of a popular deity and drinking his blood every week, force of numbers does not determine fact and it never will. Only good evidence does and as far as NDE is concerned there is scant little of that. Just as there was with orbs, there is something going on and it does have an explanation but as usual when science explains it, it'll not please the believers. *see Orbs for a correlative experience.
sherry - July 13, 2012 01:43 PM (GMT)
The orb is very old news and obvious once shown. Not so with NDE. No matter how much medicine can get into the workings of peoples heads it cannot know the truth of what we experience individually. And if it's true we have a spirit which is our true existance and originally separate from our physical body that is going to be hard to prove as the knowledge sits at this moment in time.
Duck - July 13, 2012 03:11 PM (GMT)
I'd say people were way more rabid in their defence of Orbs as 'The first physical manifestations of spirit' (recognise those words? ;) than currently about NDE so the argument may be old but it parallels NDE and most paranormal phenomena for that matter.
sherry - July 13, 2012 03:45 PM (GMT)
Dust orbs, no. I think most people understand dust orbs from camera's and on film.
Orbs we see clearly and visibly as they happen might have a different story.
Duck - July 13, 2012 04:49 PM (GMT)
You'll have to present examples showing the difference Sherry because I'm not sure what you mean.
Les - July 13, 2012 07:03 PM (GMT)
I can't speak for anyone else and I can't offer proof of the validity of NDE. All I can say is that I've experienced it and it's unlike any other experience I've had. I expect you'll come along and put forward explanations for what I felt and saw, but the memory of it is still crystal clear in my mind - unlike any dream I've ever had.
Duck - July 13, 2012 08:57 PM (GMT)
But do you discount the possibility that while it was a unique experience that could have a natural explanation?
zombie444 - July 13, 2012 09:08 PM (GMT)
Nine Lines of Evidence.Dr.jeffery E long.
1. Crystal-Clear Consciousness. The level of consciousness and alertness during near-death experiences (NDEs) is usually even greater than that experienced in everyday life even though NDEs generally occur when a person is unconscious or clinically dead. This high level of consciousness while physically unconscious is medically inexplicable. Additionally, the elements in NDEs generally follow the same consistent and logical order in all age groups and around the world, which refutes the possibility that NDEs have any relation to dreams or hallucinations.
2. Realistic Out-of-Body Experiences: Out-of-body experiences (OBEs) are one of the most common elements of NDEs. What NDErs see and hear of earthly events in the out-of-body state is almost always realistic. When the NDEr or others later seek to verify what was observed or heard during the NDE, the OBE observations are almost always confirmed as completely accurate. Even if the OBE observations during the NDE included events far from the physical body, and far from any possible sensory awareness of the NDEr, the OBE observations are still almost always confirmed as completely accurate. This fact alone rules out the possibility that near-death experiences are related to any known brain functioning or sensory awareness. This also refutes the possibility that NDEs are unrealistic fragments of memory from the brain.
3. Heightened Senses. Not only are heightened senses reported by most who have experienced NDEs, normal or supernormal vision has occurred in those with significantly impaired vision, and even legal blindness. Several people who have been totally blind since birth have reported highly visual near-death experiences. This is medically inexplicable.
4. Consciousness During Anesthesia. Many NDEs occur while under general anesthesia- at a time when any conscious experience should be impossible. While some skeptics claim that these NDEs may be the result of too little anesthesia, this ignores the fact that some NDEs result from anesthesia overdose. Additionally, the description of a NDE differs greatly from that of one who experiences “anesthetic awareness.” The content of NDEs that occur under general anesthesia is essentially indistinguishable from NDEs that did not occur under general anesthesia. This is further strong evidence that NDEs are occurring completely independently from the functioning of the physical brain.
5. Perfect Playback. Life reviews in near-death experiences include real events that previously took place in the lives of those having the experience, even if the events were forgotten or happened before they were old enough to remember.
6. Family Reunions. During a NDE, the people encountered are virtually always deceased, and are usually relatives of the person having the experience- sometimes they are even relatives who died before the NDEr was born. Were the NDE only a product of memory fragments, they would almost certainly include far more living people, including those with whom they had more recently interacted.
7. Children’s Experiences. The near-death experiences of children, including very young children who are too young to have developed concepts of death, religion, or near-death experiences, are essentially identical to those of older children and adults. This refutes the possibility that the content of NDEs is produced by preexisting beliefs or cultural conditioning.
8. Worldwide Consistency. Near-death experiences appear remarkably consistent around the world, and across many different religions and cultures. NDEs from non-Western countries are incredibly similar to those that occur in people in Western countries.
9. Aftereffects. It is common for people to experience major life changes after having near-death experiences. These aftereffects are often powerful, lasting, life-enhancing, and the changes generally follow a consistent pattern. As the NDErs themselves almost always believe- near-death experiences are, in a word, real.
Les - July 13, 2012 10:03 PM (GMT)
|QUOTE (Duck @ Jul 13 2012, 09:57 PM)|
| But do you discount the possibility that while it was a unique experience that could have a natural explanation? |
No. I don't discount that.
sherry - July 14, 2012 08:48 AM (GMT)
In reply to Duck on orbs.
The orbs which might be a paranromal phenomena are the ones that can be seen via normal vision.
One night when my mum was ill I woke up and saw lots of bright balls of light fluttering along the curtain bottom. I thought I was seeing things and quickly glanced about the room and back again where I saw the balls of light fluttering on another part of the curtain. This is where the curtain hung lower past the window so was resting on the radiator. I wondered if it could be something to do with car lights which might have been going by, but I stayed awake for a while and didn't get this same effect. Not before and never since. So I really don't think it was that. These lights were about the same size as marbles, some smaller than others. They were very bright and glittery. And like ping ponging, dancing about in all directions. I'm not saying there wasn't a natural reason for it but this is the only time I've experienced it. Also there was a comforting feeling, a very strange atmosphere which was almost magical. Very pleasant. This was years ago, definitely over ten could be more.
Also visible bright lights occured regularly during the Scole experiments and also during physical seances. All there claimed to see them. So this is what I mean in the difference of orbs. The ones we see played back on videos in the dark and what we see after the event on photos. The difference being the ones we all see at the time and then the ones that aren't seen at the time but show up in photos/videos.