The Bible states that in the last days, people will be lovers of money:

I do wonder if we are starting to see this happen. There are many signs that line up with biblical scripture pertaining to the end days happening now, this would be just another one.

We gamble more and more, and pushed into even more gambling. It really started to kick off with the lottery, one night a week. This then went to two nights, then we got the euro lottery on a friday night. Next to follow was a Tuesday night draw, followed by plus 5 and all the other variations, Thunderball ect.

Then we are blasted with online gambling, bingo, poker ect. Notice how many adverts try to entice us in, all aimed at making us money, and hopefully a lot of it.

Injured, at work or in an accident, we can get you thousands.

Have you been mis-sold PPI, we can get you compensation.

Things are always described in monetary terms.

This is not a one off, notice how many things are always described with costing "x" amount.

The eurozone crisis was caused by greed.

The world does seem to have it's fair share of lovers of money. Be it the one trying to part us with our hard earned or the individual trying to make a quick buck, dosen't it?

Timothy 6:10

"For the love of money is the root of all evil: which while some coveted after, they have erred from the faith, and pierced themselves through with many sorrows."





I still say the best things in life are free.

:)

Although not a believer anymore I cant help but agree that the prophecies in the bible do seem to be happening.

I agree frehley. Handsup

The best things in life are free and give us most enjoyment. That is for sure. People we love and who love us - people who care about us whatever life brings. Having a laugh, a chat, a moan over a drink of some sort. Relaxing walks in the country or at the seaside. Good company. Can't beat any of those.


But...... as life is lived now we do need money to get by. I think this has always been so though. Because of the rise in population and supposedly law and order, needing money has escalated out of reason. So we get the temptations to gamble to make life easier for ourselves. I think that has always been there but with so many media links available now it's rife and out of control.

The world does seem to be going crazy with wars and unease in all directions. Personally I have never known such unease with what's happening in countries.

I'm not sure it's all to do with predictions of the Bible though. But then again - who knows. I does make you think.

They are not 'free' and they presume good health (which isn't 'free').

I'm not sure it is out of control, why do you say that?

You've only been alive for 'few seconds', so your samples are going to be small.

Agreed.

Well, I'm glad we agree on something, Rusty :lol:

Why do you say these are not free? Of course they are - at least they can be if you choose them to be.

I say they are out of control because of the debt so many people are getting into with such opportunities to gamble.

True - that's why I said 'Personally' meaning my view, my lifetime.

When the Euro collapses around Christmas 2012, the Mayan prophecies may come true, it will be the end of one cycle and the begining of the next, hopefully a less materialistic one!

This describes the Tudors to a T. Were those days the last days, then? :P

This verse could apply to so many periods in history and that renders it pointless.

That's very true Fwenchie, everybody thinks they live in the last days, we seem to be a bit obsessed by it! h-i-d-e

If we had to start all over again would we re-invent

1) Money

2) Organised Religion


Worth a thought .......

Like I said, the enjoyment of those times depends on you and others being sufficiently independent and healthy to enjoy them. It is not 'free' to have a seaside walk if you don't live there, as is a walk anywhere else. The places you would walk are not free, they need maintenance, often provided by taxation and similar. 'Drink' is not free; that has to be paid for, as is the place you need to be to have a cosy chat, if it happens to be in winter. And to have all your friends and family around you depends on you having any of course.

I'd imagine most who are in trouble would do it if there was only one gambling option.

Which means, while you might be telling the truth, the truth is you couldn't judge whether Ganda's view is correct or not. This is common of many aspects of life we observe.

I'm no historian Fwench but I would suspect that the amount of people embroiled in money in tudor times was far fewer per head of population, then in modern times.

Everyone, no matter how poor have the means of gambling, even if it's just a pound. I also suspect most do.

What also has to be remembered is that it is not just one Bible prophecy that points to this being the end times.

I think one of the strongest pointers is:

1 Thessalonians 5

Now through out time peopel have cried "peace", but safety is a very modern issue

Of course there is the on going spate of earthquakes.

The same could be said about profligacy in Roman times as well. Earthquakes are a lot more calmer than they were in times before Man, although we have one or two supervolcanoes that are due to blow, but this has always been the case.

The Bible deals with the period of Mankind.

The same aplies though Rusty, people embroiled in money in Roman times was far fewer per head of population, then in modern times.

Funnily enough I was thinking the same thing Vlos, what a lot of people seem not to get is the Mayan calander predicts a new start not the end of the world.

But are they on the increase, or are we experiencing more due to our population growth and scientific record taking?

I don't have figures, but I would expect that the overwhelming majority of people on this planet with money, have it to survive, not to gamble and waste.

How many people gamble? I don't mean hard core gambling but a fiver a week on the lottery, a scratch card when they buy a paper, logging on for a game of bingo or poker. Why do you think there is such a explosion in casinos, they would not be there if people did not use them.

Mankind stretches from east to west, not just the well-off west. Your argument would carry more weight if it was backed by facts.

Gambling and religion have some things in common, not least that they are both underpinned by a faith and an investment in irrational understanding.

Even taking into the equation the more poorer countrys in the world, there are now more people in the world wrapped up with money then ever before. The ever expanding gambling industry proves this, the adverts pounding our screens for compensation proves this, corrupt world leaders of poor nations and their government officals prove this. Just look at the Russian government......

Nothing irrational about the Bible Rusty, It's mans ability not to accept what is staring them in the face, "ah but you can't prove it, so I'm going to discard it". The problem is it can be proved, mankind are just not willing to try.

Maybe because back then the populus was living under strict regimes and such regimes implemented by not only the government but the catholic church as well (how ironic!) in most of Europe, and lived in fear, and with good reasons, too!
Everyone has always been embroiled in money ( as you put it), the rich as well as the poor. Power, land, money; it all boils down to the same thing: luxury.
You cannot tell me that most people, rich and poor alike, whatever the period or regime, did/do not aspire to a life of luxury. Who wants to live in squalor?

Sorry, I don't see why you're saying this at this point in your post and I don't think it really backs up what you're saying. If anything it contradicts what you are saying. Gambling is as old as Erode.

Repeating something over and over again does not make it true.

How very convenient! Hundreds and hundreds of fear mongering to control the masses IMO.

OK, for starters, a pregnant woman has a pretty good idea of when labor pains may start, shall we say 9 months after conception?
So that's a pretty bad analogy from alledgedly smart, and foreseeing people! :P

Yeah, and I bet the people of Pompei thought the end of the world was coming, too.


Come on, no-one can predict the future, let alone a bunch of people who could barely map up the world
w-ink

If you have to try, then it hasn't been proved.

Every second/minute/hour/day/year/decade/century/millennium, we move ever closer to destruction, of that I am certain and so is most of the scientific community.

Here's a timely song for you all: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntLsElbW9Xo

The eastern world it is explodin',
violence flarin', bullets loadin',
you're old enough to kill but not for votin',
you don't believe in war, what's that gun you're totin',
and even the Jordan river has bodies floatin',
but you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Don't you understand, what I'm trying to say?
Can't you see the fear that I'm feeling today?
If the button is pushed, there's no running away,
There'll be noone to save with the world in a grave,
take a look around you, boy, it's bound to scare you, boy,
but you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Yeah, my blood's so mad, feels like coagulatin',
I'm sittin' here, just contemplatin',
I can't twist the truth, it knows no regulation,
handful of Senators don't pass legislation,
and marches alone can't bring integration,
when human respect is disintegratin',
this whole crazy world is just too frustratin',
and you tell me over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Think of all the hate there is in Red China!
Tehn take a look around to Selma, Alabama!
Ah, you may leave here, for four days in space,
but when your eturn, it's the same old place,
the poundin' of the drums, th pride and disgrace,
you can bury your dead, but don't leave a trace,
hate your next-door-neighbour, but don't forget to say grace,
and you tell me over and over and over and over again my friend,
ah, you don't believe we're on the eve of destruction.

Your quite right Fwench, but that is not the point I was making. Most adverts are now connected in some way with aquiring money. Be it mis sold pensions, claim for accidents, bingo, poker, there are 3 lottery advertised now. The postcode lottery, the national lottery and the health lottery. Everything is money oreintated. Industrial disputes are measured in how much money is lost, health care is measured in how much it costs, eg smokers cost the health sevice "x" amount of pounds.

The point was about peace and safety, as for the analogy it is actually quite good. A woman knows that she will have labour pain and will know roughly when it will start, but cannot say the exact time or date.

Niether does it make it false.... w-ink :rolleyes: :lol:

Ok I'm going to work with this then...

But people have always looked at easy ways to make a quick buck, think colonisation and slave trade, arranged marriages, black market...just as much as people have always tried to save money. Some even tried(and still do now) to wipe out entire ethnies in the name of money. It's nothing new!!!!! We're using different ways, that's all. More PC ways.


What about peace and safety, what exactly are you refering to?

Again I don't dispute this Fwench, my reasoning was how many people per head of population are actually money orientated.

This is another end time prophecy:

It may be that people crying peace have been around a long time, but people crying safety is a very modern thing, the great health and safety message....

the great health and safety message....


I still don't get it!!!!
What are you on about?!!!! Specifics?

I'm thinking 'plagues' here!

No Fwench, not plagues :lol:

The health and safety message that blights our country and many others. Trivial things like:

Children cannot play conkers at school

You can't throw sweets at a panto

To the more serious that can end with senarios like this:

Health and saftey out of control.

I really don't see what you are getting at with this.

I can. Ganda is saying that the way we conduct our lives now is all about Health and Safety on how we should do this or that. And it's gone to ridiculous extremes, to the extent that people are dying because of its strict protocol.

Which goes hand in hand with the passage from the Bible.

It does, but it doesn't only apply to 2012.
Those prophecies are wide open for interpretations to suit, TO BOOT!

Was there really a time when people did not care about their own health and safety and that of others? I think not. Unless they were/are desperate to survive and I'll come to that in my post.
Examples: People used to bleed themselves by the means of small incisions to let the blood run clear. Reasons: health and safety/saveguard.
The science of medecine is one fo the oldest science in the world. People have always seeked remedies, antidotes and preventives. Reasons: health and safety.
Even when people are or have been, willingly or not put themselves in danger by going to war, they use/used protective clothing/shields etc...

We learn from the past and learning is the key here. In the past, not everyone did have access or the means to education as we do now and that made it easier for those who did to control those who didn't.

And this also applies to the obsession money issue you refer to.
Unless you can actually show me real figures of ''how many people per head of population are actually money orientated. '' for today and throughout history, you really don't have a point, and I doubt you ever will seeing as it has always been about wealth!!
Money, or trading rather, are essential means to survival. Some may resort to thieving or gambling but again that is nothing new.
Saying that more and more people are obsessed with money today is like saying that more and more people are obsessed with surviving!

I'll say it again, both the prophecies you've quoted could apply to any nation, regime and to any moment in time.

H&S gone mad ... in say, India, Russia, China or Africa? I don't think so. The problem with ganda's argument is he is referring to typical newspaper stories and drawing a conclusion about the world. Or are God's children only in the west?

Oooooh, SNAP!

The scripture does not say what areas of the world will be crying peace and safety, it only says people will be crying peace and safety.

As reguards the money aspect, if you cannot see that the world is very money oreientated, were are you looking. Yes people have always dreampt about being rich but the number of adverts on the telly and in the press should tell you people are more and more trying to fulfill the dream. Let's face it the sheer number of companys now advertising tells me, at least, it's a profitable business, otherwise they would not waste money advertising.

Not to the extent that there happening now though. Safety is the by word in the world now. Example: Twenty years ago you could jump on a bike and ride it, now your frowned upon if you haven't got all the safety equipment. Speed limits are furiously meted out for cars. The list goes on and on........

I can't beleive, you cannot see that H and S is the by word of the era. :blink:

H&S is a easy cop out now days for people who don't want to take responsibility for there actions or do no action at all, or they don't want to get sued for lots of money so it's easy to say NO

the other cop out now days what we did not hear of years ago is i got PTSD to clam lots of money do you see fireman ambulance staff clam it all the time NO
yes PTSD dose happen and it's not nice to have

have we got ourselves into a society of i wont and want it now and not have to work for it like our parents did

Oh I can see it, I never said that I didn't. I said that money, health and safety have always been issues, even when ignored.

What I can't believe that you are trying to pass off health and safety as ''Peace and safety''. Peace and health are two very different things.
'Peace and safety' to me, would be associated with end or avoidance of conflict.
So either you take those prophecies to the letter or you don't?!
Your interpretation of them are sounding (to me) as vague as they are.

What is this 'destruction' coming in the middle of the night they speak off anyway?

It all sounds rather spooky and underhanded! Shockhorror
:P

You have hit the nail smack on the head JT

That is not a definiation of safety fwench:

Safety is the state of being "safe" (from French sauf) :rolleyes: :lol: , Not an end to conflict.

you can say that again the bible to me is a novel by an unknown author

Does the bible have anything to say about the crazy sceptics? Chortle

I am well aware of the etymology of the word, thanks! I have to translate from French before speaking English, ya know, or at least I used to, it just comes naturally now, because yeah, I'm actually not THAT stoopid!
Anyhow.... there are two definitions to the word:
1The condition of being protected from or unlikely to cause danger, risk, or injury: "they should leave for their own safety".

2Denoting something designed to prevent injury or damage: "a safety barrier"; "a safety helmet"


And I didn't say it 'end of conflict' was the definition of 'safety' I said I would associate it with in the context of the prophecy!!!!!!! Big nuance.


You are going with the second one, I'm going with the 1st.

Can you answer my question about peace, please?