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 Beginning of the Universe?, Lol always a great one...
Josephgregg
Posted: Jan 25 2009, 10:36 AM


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This has been a question that has been in the minds of many great philosophers throughout the ages. And now, a combat-centered RuneScape clan shall attempt to answer it: How did the Universe begin?

Well, here are my two cents on this issue:

First, the laws of science have to be taken into consideration. First: nothing is ever created out of something. Second: energy cannot be created or destroyed, only transformed.

These two facts immediately disprove all the common possibilities of how the universe was created. Energy was obviously needed to make a Big Bang, and certainly the Big Bang couldn't have happened unless something made it happen. Therefore, the universe could not have created itself. So now we have two mutually exclusive facts: the universe could not have been created using only the laws of science, but yet we do exist. Therefore, the universe must have been created outside the laws of science, or by something outside the laws of science.

Therefore, there must have been some Intelligent Being, who supercedes the laws of science and nature which it itself created, that created the Universe, was able to create something out of nothing, and possibly transferred some of its own energy (or created some, if it was possible for it to do that) into creating the Universe. It seems odd that an explanation, possibly the explanation, for why the universe was created, despite the limits of the laws of science, completely goes against all the laws of science tongue.gif

I can tell this is going to be a fun discussion biggrin.gif
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Lamb Bug
Posted: Jan 25 2009, 11:25 AM


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That energy cannot be created or destroyed is true. But energy takes up no space.

Here is my thought: All energy in the universe (but it wasn't really the universe because the universe hadn't formed yet) somehow converged on a single point. Suddenly, it exploded outwards at an insane speed.

Since Einstein's formula E=MC squared has been proven, a little of the energy from the Big Bang was converted into a lot of mass. Gravity caused the mass to combine into stars, which started the process of fusion, binding hydrogen atoms into helium. When large stars reached the end of their lifespan, they supernoved, allowing for huge amounts of fusion to occur in a very short time, thus creating all the other elements.


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Golden arm42
Posted: Jan 25 2009, 11:52 AM


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I really don't know...astrophysics makes my brain dissolve...tongue.gif


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Kerkennah
Posted: Jan 25 2009, 12:04 PM


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It's pretty obvious that God is the creator of the universe and all the things in it.


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Lamb Bug
Posted: Jan 25 2009, 12:04 PM


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It seems like a lot makes your brain dissolve Golden. tongue.gif


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Kevinsaurus
Posted: Jan 25 2009, 12:26 PM


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QUOTE (Golden arm42 @ Jan 25 2009, 11:52 AM)
I really don't know...astrophysics makes my brain dissolve...tongue.gif

yup same here lolz... i'm not even gonna try to debate this >.<


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Josephgregg
Posted: Jan 25 2009, 02:33 PM


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QUOTE (Lamb Bug @ Jan 25 2009, 11:25 AM)
That energy cannot be created or destroyed is true. But energy takes up no space.

Here is my thought: All energy in the universe (but it wasn't really the universe because the universe hadn't formed yet) somehow converged on a single point. Suddenly, it exploded outwards at an insane speed.

Since Einstein's formula E=MC squared has been proven, a little of the energy from the Big Bang was converted into a lot of mass. Gravity caused the mass to combine into stars, which started the process of fusion, binding hydrogen atoms into helium. When large stars reached the end of their lifespan, they supernoved, allowing for huge amounts of fusion to occur in a very short time, thus creating all the other elements.

Ah, but there was no energy in the universe. How can it converge on a single point, if there isn't any to converge in the first place? Events can be traced farther and farther back, but eventually you reach a place where they can't be explained by science. That's where an Intelligent Designer comes in. Someone who supercedes the laws of nature, who didn't have a defined beginning or end. Since there is no explanation that is scientifical, the explanation has to be "un-scientifical".
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Wolfclaw104
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 07:51 PM


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QUOTE (Kerkennah @ Jan 25 2009, 12:04 PM)
It's pretty obvious that God is the creator of the universe and all the things in it.

Matters what religon you believe in wink.gif

-Wolf
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Rallos Zek6
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 07:56 PM


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god did it. :>
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Josephgregg
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 08:05 PM


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QUOTE (Wolfclaw104 @ Feb 9 2009, 07:51 PM)
QUOTE (Kerkennah @ Jan 25 2009, 12:04 PM)
It's pretty obvious that God is the creator of the universe and all the things in it.

Matters what religon you believe in wink.gif

-Wolf

Well, most religions belive in god tongue.gif Even agnostics believe in a god, they just don't want to bother with Him/Her/It.

To reiterate what I said earlier, it's very likely that the world took the path that you (Lamb Bug) stated, except for one thing. The "little energy in the universe" didn't exist, as energy can't be created, especially if there wasn't even anything there to create it. Therefore, something had to exist before anything existed (confusing paradoxes always get to you laugh.gif ), that had an infinite wealth of energy, or at least enough energy to cause the Big Bang. There simply is no other explanation; the Universe exists, but the universe couldn't create itself or create its own energy, as it doesn't have its own intelligence or since it didn't exist before it existed (the universe is a mortal thing, so it had a beginning and will have an ending eventually). But a god, an immortal being that is above the laws of nature, that doesn't have a beginning or an end, but that simply Is...that is the only and most logical explanation that I know of, and that anyone I know knows of. But is there any other theory on the creation of the universe?

Also, Einstein's law that says nothing can travel faster than light has been disproven. An experiment resulted in two atoms conveying information to each other faster than the speed of light, which completely disproves Einstein's therory. Just an interesting fact smile.gif
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[LTH]-starwolf_ftw
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 08:27 PM


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Joe basically what has been stated is that we don't know the answers to everything, but we can always dream what the posibilites could be. The answers to our questions are as limitless as the number of questions we want answers to. I just say that we leave the questions about our creation, our exhistence, and our eventual end should not be stated because it all creates the same thing, conflict. This has caused wars in the past, present, and the evident future. So why bother discussing what we have no clue about?


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Expect more about this later today. biggrin.gif
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Techy
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 08:28 PM


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It's kinda ironic that I'm posting this right after CCD but... tongue.gif

I do believe their is something of a higher order involved in the creation of the universe. You can't create energy, so the universe couldn't be created from nothing. Also, they say the universe is endless, yet constantly expanding. I do believe in the Big Bang Theory, and that a giant star exploded to create our Solar System. Our planet was one of the results of all the floating gas and matter coming back together and condensing.

But maybe what we perceive as the universe is wrong. Maybe there's more to time and space that we can't understand. Like a black hole...if you go through one, what happens? Are you destroyed molecule by molecule, is their any time? If your light is going in, and other light is going out, do you see time backwards?

Just as a side not, one of Saturn's (or Jupiter's) moons has been found volcanically active and has lots of gas. So it has been considered the best hopes of sustaining life so far, better than Mars does/did. smile.gif


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[LTH]-starwolf_ftw
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 08:42 PM


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QUOTE (Techy @ Feb 9 2009, 07:28 PM)
It's kinda ironic that I'm posting this right after CCD but... tongue.gif

I do believe their is something of a higher order involved in the creation of the universe. You can't create energy, so the universe couldn't be created from nothing. Also, they say the universe is endless, yet constantly expanding. I do believe in the Big Bang Theory, and that a giant star exploded to create our Solar System. Our planet was one of the results of all the floating gas and matter coming back together and condensing.

But maybe what we perceive as the universe is wrong. Maybe there's more to time and space that we can't understand. Like a black hole...if you go through one, what happens? Are you destroyed molecule by molecule, is their any time? If your light is going in, and other light is going out, do you see time backwards?

Just as a side not, one of Saturn's (or Jupiter's) moons has been found volcanically active and has lots of gas. So it has been considered the best hopes of sustaining life so far, better than Mars does/did. smile.gif

You are referring to one of the Galaleian Moons of Jupiter, Io. But that planet has no atmosphere... Not to mention the entire planet is volcanically active.


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Expect more about this later today. biggrin.gif
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Josephgregg
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 09:02 PM


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QUOTE (starwolf_ftw @ Feb 9 2009, 08:27 PM)
Joe basically what has been stated is that we don't know the answers to everything, but we can always dream what the posibilites could be. The answers to our questions are as limitless as the number of questions we want answers to. I just say that we leave the questions about our creation, our exhistence, and our eventual end should not be stated because it all creates the same thing, conflict. This has caused wars in the past, present, and the evident future. So why bother discussing what we have no clue about?

Whether or not all this matters really depends on the answer to the question. If there isn't a god, then it doesn't matter whether or not we believe in one, as it won't affect anything. However, if a god exists, and we decide to ignore the possibility of its existence...well, depending on what religion you believe in, you generally end up in hell sad.gif So yes, this can be a very big deal. What does it matter if we spend an hour discussing the existence of a god, compared to eternal life or eternal torture? Eternity lasts a long time... tongue.gif

But no disrespect meant, star.
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[LTH]-starwolf_ftw
Posted: Feb 9 2009, 09:09 PM


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QUOTE (Josephgregg @ Feb 9 2009, 08:02 PM)
QUOTE (starwolf_ftw @ Feb 9 2009, 08:27 PM)
Joe basically what has been stated is that we don't know the answers to everything, but we can always dream what the posibilites could be. The answers to our questions are as limitless as the number of questions we want answers to. I just say that we leave the questions about our creation, our exhistence, and our eventual end should not be stated because it all creates the same thing, conflict. This has caused wars in the past, present, and the evident future. So why bother discussing what we have no clue about?

Whether or not all this matters really depends on the answer to the question. If there isn't a god, then it doesn't matter whether or not we believe in one, as it won't affect anything. However, if a god exists, and we decide to ignore the possibility of its existence...well, depending on what religion you believe in, you generally end up in hell sad.gif So yes, this can be a very big deal. What does it matter if we spend an hour discussing the existence of a god, compared to eternal life or eternal torture? Eternity lasts a long time... tongue.gif

But no disrespect meant, star.

I'm not saying I follow any religion or am atheist, I just like debating tongue.gif If there is a god and we ignore him, how do we know IT (don't want to be sexist) even exhists? If we waste all this time to spread religion throughout the entire planet, and eventually to other worlds, only to find out that when we die, that's it. I don't belive there is no heaven or hell because if you think they do exhist, then show it to me on a map. It might be possible that heaven and hell are different universes and when we die our souls are transferred to another realm of either happiness or literally hell, but it all seems so unrealistic. If the people of our time spent all this time focused in religion instead into another form of science or media, imagine where we could be by now. I don't mean to sound anti relgious, but these questions I have pondered don't have any ways of being answered within reality.


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Expect more about this later today. biggrin.gif
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