R&D OOC

OOC Discussion, i.e. bilateral/multilateral project discussion. Issues with specific development programs goes to the review/vetoes thread.

Just to be a nitpicker. The Kirov is actually called Kirov, not Admiral Ushakov again.

Have they renamed it again? To be honest, I prefer the Kirov as a name anyway.

They did, back in '04 or something. The others did retain their non-commie names though.

They did it because they want to name a Sovremenny ship 'Admiral Ushakov' instead.

The Russian Navy isn't very sensible.

It's more sensible than keeping the Kirov named Ushakov and naming the Sovremenny Kirov

Hubris, is there even any point in a Libyan R&D thread?

Of course there is... where else would I keep my weapon re-designations? Huh?

>_>

I suppose it's rather pointless lol.

According to wiki the Pakistan Navys it to undergo an ambitious Nuclear Submarines Project to be completed between 2020 and 2023 but what exactly do you guys think the specs of this vessel would be?

It depends whether its an SSBN or SSN (i.e, whether it is simply intended as a survivable nuclear second strike platform, or as an attack submarine), and where it draws its design inspiration from. If such a program is in fact completed, it is highly likely it is to some degree borrowing from existing Chinese SSK/SSN/SSBN design (in the case of the former, this will necessitate a small nuclear reactor, and be something like the French Rubis-class).

As for the general capabilities, it is unlikely to be anything special. Chinese submarine design has a troubled history as it is, a Pakistani derivative (depending on what role it fills) will be limited.

It might also be wise for you to lease an existing nuclear submarine (China again being by far the most likely vendor in this respect) in order to gain experience operating such vessels, as India did, first with a Charlie-class SSGN and then with an Akula-class SSN.

Given the size of Pakistan's shoreline, I'd consider SSNs to be rather unlikely. SSGNs are even less likely given the paucity of them in the first place and the fact that, in any conflict ideal for them, Pakistan will likely have a hard time keeping them alive. I think we're much more likely to see Pakistan pursue an SSBN program if it does, in fact, pursue a nuclear program at all.

And China is your likely partner, yes. But I won't have an old SSBN I can lease or sell; you'd probably have to buy one new-build. With the Type 096 on the horizon, I could definitely see selling China's Type 094 more or less as-is.

That's a big, big ship, X.

This information public yet? China needs to lose its shit, cry "NANKING! NANKING!", and threaten to deploy more missiles.

Yep Technically speaking, the information has been public since at least 2010 when the MOD showed a $1.5B expenditure for 22DDH. The Japanese defence ministry doesn't seem to have very restrictive information control -- they publish annual reports that show military spending (and on what equipment, for how much) and R&D (both budgets and programs). As a result, if you dug back through TRDI documents, China, from open source alone, will have known about this since ~2008, at the very least.

You may begin to "lose your shit" (or sanity, or contaminated milk, or whatever else China looses on its historical rivals these days) any moment now.

As you mention in your J-20 post, though, the utility of more ships like this is debatable in the current threat environment. Even if I were to get a Nimitz it might very well end up being a 21st century Yamato/Musashi. Naturally, that means unconventional solutions.

Okay. I just wanted to make sure this was public before I posted the obligatory "EBIL JAPAN!" opinion piece.

And yeah, I'm aware it's not much of a threat to China proper. China has a fetish for area denial technology that's going to go to turn everything inside the First Island Chain into a giant shooting gallery. Naturally, this is exactly the sort of technology that countries like Argentina are going to want if they decide to pursue militarism.

Yeah, screw those Arab bastards!

Yeah, I wouldn't use it to invade Persia, there's too much shit between us

So the Chinese are copying the Americans in procurement, too (minus the sketchy info bit)?

Also, an obituary for your D-30/122mm guns.

Hah. Maybe I should make that a People's Daily Article ("D-30: The End of a Superb Howitzer").

China's such a pain in the ass to research inventory information for. 4srs.

Is it just me, or am I the only player not using the metric system in R&D posts?

I think it's easier on everyone if you do use it. Calculations for weight are a lot easier when you start in tonnes and don't have to guess whether that t means long or short tons.

Besides, you gave caliber measurements in millimeters and not fractional inches. It just makes sense to use the metric system across the board.

The metric system is ten times better.

It also happens to be a lot more, well, you know, sane. And easier.

The metric system is ten times better.

It also happens to be a lot more, well, you know, sane. And easier.

Well, considering many players are from nations other than the US, and the SI system is basically the international standard, it just makes a degree of sense to use the one that's most widely recognized.

Of course, the real reason I use it is flavor: wouldn't it be rather odd for nations that use the metric system to have official stats in the imperial system? If I was the US, I'd use miles and what not for the same flavor.

The US military, though, does sort of use the metric system. In any event, I think as the USA the best policy would be to provide measurements in both systems. Or, if you really like flavor, follow all the US military conventions for such matters. Which would give you a strange mix, but a realistic one. Kiloyards!

Schwer, your (CJ-11) cruise missile looks either way too capable, or way too small. If we look at some of history's premier antishipping cruise missiles (all of which are naturally Russian) we get physical characteristics like this:

P-500 Bazalt: range of 550km, supersonic, 950kg warhead, and a total weight of 4500kg.

P-700 Granit: range of ~600km, supersonic, 750kg warhead, and a total weight of 7000kg.

P-800/Brahmos: range of 290km, Mach 3, 300kg warhead, and a total weight of 3000kg (2500kg without booster).

Kh-22: range of 400km, Mach 4, 900kg warhead, and a total weight of 5800kg (no booster).

If we look at comparable warheads, the Brahmos is our analogue. Except it flies slower, ten times shorter, and weighs 50% more. The only thing I'm aware of that would produce such extreme speed and ranges are hypersonic missile programs, of which the only two I can think of are the Russian Kh-90 (canceled thanks to INF) and the collection of American designs which aren't going to produce anything operational for at least another few years.

This missile needs to lose range, speed, and gain weight (as it is such a missile would probably have to weigh over 10,000 kg or something obscene like that) to be plausible.

It's the second evolution over the DH-10. The DoD estimated back in '08 that the DH-10 has a range of "2000+ km". You can find the report here; page 56.

And the BrahMos is a crappy comparison since it'll be a hypersonic missile by the end of the decade. And most of the other examples are borderline archaic.

That said, I adjusted most of the stuff.