OOC

Respect for serving your country, I have a lot of respect for the CF and your track record. I was just making sure you knew that Germany has contributed as much as they reasonably would be willing to in Afghanistan.

NATO discussions are hilarious.


And Zodiac, why should others go and die for American interests and causes in Afghanistan?

Australia wasn't attacked, Germany wasn't attacked, Poland wasn't attacked, Greece wasn't attacked.

Why should any of these countries deploy combat forces, or any forces, to an American war?

The only reason there were so many who got involved was because they invoked the NATO charter. And because of the scale of what had happened on 9/11.

The Americans wanted all their allies to send their sons and daughters to fight and die with them..but they didn't want to take anyone's advice or hear any opinions from anyone else. They thought they knew everything and everyone else was stupid.

That's why when some Americans got lost, and American special forces couldn't find them, after ignoring suggestions from their Australian allies, the Australians went out, without about 1/50th of the manpower, and brought those lost Americans back.

And LOL at the mention of the Dutch. Ask the Australian special forces there, who were pinned down and under fire, and called for air support from Dutch Apaches, but the Dutch didn't want to get involved so went back to base and got on with their day. Meanwhile their allies are out there possibly dying...

And now where are we, 12 years later? So many military people are saying it's a lost cause. It always was a lost cause.
Those people don't want us there.
They don't want our way of life/government imposed on them.

We went in, routed the Taliban, should have gone after Bin Laden properly(MY SWEET ASS THEY COULDN'T FIND HIM TILL RECENTLY), and gotten the fuck out of that hell hole where the people don't want us there to begin with.

The Northern Alliance should have been left to fight it out with the Taliban remnants. They would have had more success because of one thing...they are locals. We aren't.


Thankfully, most countries(unfortunately not Australia's government) came to their senses in 2006 and didn't get involved in America's latest invasion in Iraq. That's why the Americans had to make up allies like Georgia and Albania and the USAF had to fly their soldiers in to look pretty and show that America wasn't totally alone with the British and Australians and a few others.


Good on you for serving your country.
Don't ask me to respect any governments decision to take part in bogus wars based on lies and propaganda that have cost the lives of thousands of service people, and not to mention hundreds of thousands of innocent civilians. And lets not forget the many more who are permanently disabled as a result.

If we were fighting for a just cause, then I'd even enlist and go join the fight. But we aren't fighting for just or noble causes anymore.
We are fighting for American foreign policy which centers of it's energy policy.

Sorry, but I don't want to die for some corporations which have profits into the tens of billions annually, rape the environment and destroy peoples lives.

But there is no Hitler in Europe or Imperial Japanese forces sweeping through the Pacific threatening our freedom to fight against.

What we could be fighting against, is dictators and tyrants like Mugabe in Zimbabwe....but we aren't. The corporations don't want a war there because they have nothing go gain there.

East Timor is another example.
For many years the people were being persecuted by the Indonesians.
Oh hang on, there's a shit load of oil and gas in the Timor Sea...let's get involved..East Timor is free, but Australia, with the help of American energy corporations like Chevron, are raping the resources in the Timor Sea, most of which belong to East Timor..but they aren't getting any benefit.
A stones throw away in West Papua, or Aceh, the same thing is happening. The people are being butchered and persecuted by Indonesia. But we stay silent on the atrocities which occur there.


So, when we decide to go to war for the RIGHT reasons, then you'll see many more countries willingly commit to combat operations.
Because their people accept that for the right cause, sacrifices have to be made. Even ones life in war.

And most of Europe has fought for the right reason, like freedom, in WW2 against Hitler.
Those countries, those people, know what it means to have your freedom taken away from you and know what it means to have to fight for it and make the biggest of all sacrifices for freedom.

Article 7 of the NATO Treaty that's why, As for the dutch, that's an ROE issue from the transfer of OEF to ISAF, trust me Canada had the same issue and it was annoying as fuck. I didn't agree with Iraq like many, was BS, Intervention in Syria I somewhat agree with though it is a very thin line giving how sectarian the situation is. Now the only thing I hate in the world are those who think words solve everything cause it doesn't. Now me being an aggressive Canada makes the game more interesting, especially once I get that carrier battle group

There is no legitimate case for Western intervention in Syria.
Especially not the way the West has gone about it so far.
But I suppose we should be thankful it's the Democracts in power and not the Republicans, because they would have invaded and bombed the hell out of Syria.


And I doubt the carrier battle group will be operational by the year 2025. Two words, no experience.



And before you all go off and boycott Russian gas and oil, which I find to be hilarious you are even considering, don't forget that the EU has put an embargo on oil and gas from Iran.

Throw in the Suez crisis...

I wanted to freeze Putin and his allies financial assets stored away in the EU. How does that equate to an oil embargo?

They're probably all stored in Germany to be honest...

Your posts don't really make it clear what you want.
The easiest assumption one can come to from reading some of the posts in NATO is that some in NATO want a confrontation with Russia because their governments have suddenly gone bat shit insane.

I think some of you need to realize Russia is not some insignificant Arab country with a crackpot dictator.

They're probably all stored in Germany to be honest...

Cyprus mostly.

Somehow I don't see Putin's popularity going up if his backers can't pay for their mistresses and dachas.

They're probably all stored in Germany to be honest...

Cyprus mostly.

Somehow I don't see Putin's popularity going up if his backers can't pay for their mistresses and dachas.

I suggest you stick to role playing the United Kingdom and keep your soon to be bloodied nose out of what is or isn't going to happen in Russia.

Wow, lack of foresight there huh?

Most of the Russian money, over 30 billion in fact, that is in Cypriot banks, is not "legitimate" money anyway.
It is some of the money the Russian mafia has. They deposit it into Cypriot banks for a while, then they make a withdrawal and basically invest it back into Russia as "clean" money.
It's called money laundering.

It's why the EU(more like Washington) proposed the 10% tax on Cypriot bank deposits.

The whole point of that is to piss off the Russians and drive them off the island.

There's tens of thousands of Russians who live there.

And the USA has had a very very big problem with Russian money deposited in Cypriot banks for a few years now.
The last thing the US wants is for Russia to get a hold in the Eastern. Med. bigger then it already has with Tartus and friendly port visits of it's Navy in Cyprus and Greece.

Hm, should we retcon NATO discussions on Syria given the fact that we're back to the early stages of the Russian invasion?

It looks like everything except the naval stuff is going to happen the same as last time.

almost, the E-2 is out of the picture so atleast for a few extra months we don't know about the Russian AA missiles. changing the game a bit

We'd find out another way,